May 14, 2025 • 35 mins
James is joined by Molly to discuss the Trump administration admitting 59 Afrikaner "refugees" and the myth of a "white genocide" in South Africa.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
As media. Hello and welcome to It could happen here today.
We are talking about white genocide. And when I think
of genocide, there is only one name that comes to mind,
and it's Molly Congo.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Molly, welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I just I wanted you to be here as we
talked about the genocide of the white race.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I mean, who better to talk about it than two
pasty fellows like us.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
M hmm, yeah, yeah, I'm sure we're like soon for
the shopping block here.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Molly, what what's happening? Why? Why are we? Why are we?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Well, I will explain a little bit of what's happening,
and then you can tell me how on earth we
got here. The United States terminated its refugee admissions program
in January of this year, right when Donald Trump became
the president and signed a ton of executive orders. So
since then, the United States has not admitted any refugees.
In February, it also stopped, you know, States terminated its
(01:01):
cooperative agreement with refugee resettlement agencies, which meant that even
refugees who had arrived weren't getting the assistance that they
previously got. However, on the twelfth of May, the United
States have admitted fifty nine Africana refugees from South Africa,
and concurrently, Donald Trump told the press that what's happening
(01:23):
was a genocide of the white people. He said it
wasn't because they were white. He said there was black people,
he would do the same thing. I mean, there are
several genocides impacting black people right now, and they are
not getting refuge emissions to the United States. Apparently these
people are being genocided. So, Molly, can you explain what's
going on here? How the white genocide happened?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Sure, I mean, the short answer to that question is
it is not happening. It is not real. It is
not a thing that is happening, or in my opinion,
really could meaningfully happen under the conditions that they're talking about.
So again, like you said, they have terminated all refugee
resettlement programs. So people coming from active war zones, active
ongoing genocides, people fleeing political persecution all over the world.
(02:09):
They don't deserve our help. They don't need our help anymore. Right,
But these people, these people from South Africa, are uniquely
experiencing the worst thing that can happen to a person.
I guess which is white genocide. So white genocide I
think is often sort of used interchangeably with great replacement theory.
So the white genocide conspiracy theory and the great replacement theory,
(02:31):
I think they're hand in hand. They're very similar, there's
a lot of overlap, and they're used interchangeably, but white
genocide is much more specific and it's more recent iteration
on the theme. It comes from a mid nineties book
written in prison by a new Nazi terrorist named David Lane.
David Lane notably coined the fourteen words we you know,
(02:53):
the fourteen we don't need to say. He had a
lot of anxiety that if we don't do something, white
people will become extinct, will be pushed out of existence
by immigrants who are out breeding us. You know, there's
this sort of concurrent belief that pornography, which is, you know,
in their minds, something that is a Jewish tool of
oppression of the white race. That is, you know, it's
(03:14):
causing us to do interbreeding, it's deluding our bloodlines. So
you know, all of these things together are going to
push white people out of existence, which again not happening,
not true, not a real thing that can happen, but
it's something they're very anxious about. But when you spend
a lot of time talking about how white people are
being pushed out of existence, you've got to be able
(03:37):
to point to something. You have to point to a
place where a white person has been meaningfully harmed, and
they can't really do that. So the talking point that
they fall back on most often when you're talking about
white genocide, you know, you're really wringing your hands about this,
and you have to be able to point to something.
They point to the South African farm murders is this
idea that white farmers in South Africa are being targeted
(04:00):
for murder and mass that is this massive ongoing campaign
of violence, which again is not happening and is not true.
There is a more violent crime in the country of
South Africa than in other similarly positioned nations. They do
have a little bit more violent crime than we do here,
for instance, But if you break down the numbers, and
(04:23):
they have they have conducted a multi year study of this,
you know, hypothetical phenomenon. White farmers are not being targeted
for murder. They're not being murdered in larger numbers than
any other demographic. It's just not a thing that's happening.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, I know, it's almost like a laughable claim or
like except that it's also terribly sad when like Israel,
it's just kind of Babe ruthing a genocide in Gaza.
Now they're not even trying to pretend anymore. They're like, no,
we're going to kill everyone by starving them. That's what
we would like to do. And obviously there's people cannot
enter the United States, it's refugees, but these folks from
(04:58):
South Africa can How did it go from any Nazi
in prison to the brain of the President of the
United States.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I mean that idea sort of filtered into American right
wing think space over the last I guess thirty years
since Laine wrote that manifesto from prison, slowly and through
multiple origin points. But I have argued repeatedly over the
last several months that we can point to exactly the
(05:27):
moment that Donald Trump heard about this. There is a
specific moment in time in August of twenty eighteen when
Donald Trump first found out about the plight of the
white South African and I have the date somewhere in
my notes, but it was it was one evening in
August of twenty eighteen when he was watching Tucker Carlson Shocking.
He was watching an episode of Tucker's show back when
it was still on TV, and he had some policy
(05:49):
analysts from the Heritage Foundation on to talk about this
terrible thing that's happening. And about forty five minutes after
that segment aired, Donald Trump tweeted the word Africa for
the first time. He has tweeted thousands and thousands and
thousands of times about a lot about Robert Pattinson's relationship
with Kristen Stewart. You know, things about diet coke, things
(06:11):
about vaccines. He tweeted a lot of things, but he
tweeted about Africa for the first time forty five minutes
after the segment on Tucker Carlson. And he had bought
into this idea that these people are being uniquely persecuted.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
God. Yeah, Carlson has mainstreamed a lot of these like
white nationalists talking points, but yeah, this one. And you
have a really good series on this on your show, right, Like,
if people want to people want to learn more about
the plight of the Africana, you can explain that over
several hours.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yes, I spent three months sort of tracing this story
in hainstaking detail. If you're interested in checking that out
over on Weird Little Guys.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, and you should. It's great.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
It's great, good podcast. I highly recommend. So, like, we've
seen this thing gradually gained momentum, I guess. And then
at some point, obviously someone got into Trump's here in
the last month and he made an executive order.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Right, he shared the secretly order.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I'm going to read from it now, quote refugee resettlement
and other humanitarian considerations. The Secretary of State and the
Secretary of Homeland Security shall take appropriate steps consistent with
law to prioritize Yeah. Law, we're going to get to that,
to prioritize humanitarian relief, including a mission and resettlement through
(07:30):
the United States Refugee Admissions Program for Africanas in South
Africa who are victims of unjust racial discrimination. Such a
plan shall be submitted to the President through the Assistant
to the President and Homeland Security Advisor.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
So, like he's asking them to develop a plan.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Basically for resettling these white South Africans in the United States, right.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Right, So when he says that it's not about race.
Now when he's pushed on that now and he says, oh,
it's not about race. It's not because they're white. They
weren't Africanners years in the executive order. And that doesn't
just mean South. That's not a gemographic term for people
from South Africa.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
It is a.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Racial term for the descendants of Dutch settlers. Those people
are white.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah, no, like by definition, right, they are white South Africans.
They are like therefore definitionly the group that benefited from
the aparthe idea very much so. As if this wasn't
clear enough, Christopher Landau appeared at a press conference meeting
these refugees wearing an orange white and blue tie. It's
(08:32):
quite a unique tie. I actually googled orange white and
blue tie. Can find one for people who are not familiar.
That is the part idea of flag of the Republic
of South Africa.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
That is a deep cut. The decision to use that
particular color scheme when you're greeting these bore refugees is
very intentional and very odd.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, it's got to be a choice, right, Like, no
one has a striped orange white and navy blue tie
like lying around.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
And the sort of dedication to reviving that as a
symbol is not without precedent. So with Dylan Roof, the
Charleston church murderer had on patches, he had the flag
of Rhodesia. Obviously they love Rhodesia. Yeah, but he had
the apartheid era orange, white and blue South African flag
m M. And that was strange and unique enough as
(09:24):
a symbol that an American would dig up and identify with. Yes,
So the South African press noted it at the time
of the Charleston church shooting.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, it was not in the mainstream.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
That is a troubling sartorial choice.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, yeah, it's it is worrying, Like, like you say,
there's a line from the from the Africanas through Dylan
Roof too.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
It's horrific ideology.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Right. Do you know what what probably doesn't have a
direct line to a part We can't be sure of that,
I guess, but hopefully hopefully that these products and services
do not have a direct through line from apartheid.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Well, probably it's not the Washington State Patrol again.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, all right, we're back. Hopefully that was something nice.
I want to talk a little bit about the US
Refugee of Missions program. So I think people sometimes misunderstand
the program, what it means, where it comes from, who
(10:22):
it's for. So to begin with, like, I want to
distinguish between asylum seekers and refugees because I think in
like the popular lexicon, these two words are used interchangeably.
A refugee is outside of the United States and makes
an application through the US Refugee of Missions program, and
that application is processed and approved or rejected or delayed
(10:45):
or you know, left for years and years and years
while they are outside the United States. An asylum seeker
is someone who is either inside the United States or
presenting at the border of the United States and requesting
the asylum.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
So they're different categories.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Right. Generally, to be a refugee, one has to register
with the United Nations High Commission on Refugees, and thus
one has to have fled one's home country. It's somewhat
notable that this flight came from Johannesburg, right, Like these
people were in South Africa.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Well, the apparently DHS set up office space in Pretoria,
and they were conducted these interviews in Pretoria.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Right, which again is unusual. Right, So you have to
normally go to a resettlement support center, right, And I
want to talk about the process of background checks in
a minute, because surprise surprises didn't happen here, at least
not as far as I'm aware. If it did, it
to the most expedited version of this process that we've
ever seen. So these refugees have been admitted as P
(11:48):
one refugees, and people talk about P one like it's
a visa category.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
It's not.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Actually, it's a priority category. There are four priority categories
for people getting refugee visas. P one cases, the highest
priority are normally referred by embassies, the United Nations High
Commision on Refugees, or non governmental organizations. If people have
heard of this at all, it's probably with reference to
Afghan folks who worked with the United States who are
(12:16):
not being omitted in the United States refugee emission program
right now. Some of them are stuck in third countries,
even at airports if they don't have a visa for
that third country, right, waiting to work out like what
the US is going to do this time after lying
to them for decades and letting them down again.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
And unlike these real estate agents from Johannesburg, they can't
just go back home.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah, right, like that they actually have fear of persecution
if they do, which is not the case for you
South African folks. P two are people like there are
special groups designated for humanitarian concern like some congut these
people living in Rwanda in the past, and Permese groups
living in Thailand have been P two three are family
(13:00):
reunification cases, so you can you know, if one person
has refugee stats to come to the United States so
they can bring the rest of their family. And then
P four are people who have sponsors to something called
the Welcome Core. Familiar with a Welcome Core, Molly, I
am not, no. It sounds like the coolest brand to
the military, you know, like like you got the Marines
and then the Welcome Core next door. The Welcome Call
(13:23):
was set up in twenty twenty three by the Biden
administration to allow five US citizens I think a minimum
of five to get together to sponsor someone for refugee
admission for the United States and basically take responsibility for
their housing and for like reorienting them in the US community, right,
getting their kids enrolled in school, helping them find a job,
(13:44):
all that kind of stuff. It was a cool program.
It lasted less than two years. That Donald Trump rolled
that up in January of twenty twenty five, so we
don't really have P four cases anymore. So all admissions
were holding in January and February, the government, as I said,
cut all cooperative agreements with resettlement agencies. So let's talk
(14:06):
about what the normal process looks like for refugees. Generally,
they require several years of background checks and interviews. For many,
it's not possible in their countries for most right, for instance,
there is not a resettlement support center in Afghanistan, so
people have to leave. That's how you see them in
Pakistan right. What you're seeing now actually is Afghan people
(14:26):
who are in Pakistan have timed out on their visas
in Pakistan, so they're now facing immigration enforcement there because
they haven't been able to get resettled in the US
before their Pakistan visa expires. They go through medical and
biometric checks. There are at least two interviews. There are
security checks. When they do their first interview, they have
(14:50):
to give in things like their identifying documents, work history,
declare on their family relationships, all that kind of stuff.
Then they have an interview with US Citizenship and Immigration
services after that. Then if they are admitted, they take
cultural orientation classes before traveling. If that's when you learn
how to be an American. Right, I don't know what involves,
but they have to take those before they come. And
(15:11):
then the US government works with the iom for travel right,
and that travel is funded through a zero interest loan
to the refugee. So like in every other case, you
pay for your flight, you have to pay it back
starting six months when you get to the United States.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
That has not been.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
The case for our Africana refugee friends, right that it
appears that the United States government chartered a flight on
their behalf. Once the refugees arrive, they are referred to
a resettlement agency. Some of the names people might be
familiar with are like Highest their Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society,
who have literally been resettling refugees since the refugee in
(15:51):
asylum seeker category was created, right as a response to
the Holocaust. Maybe IRC is another one people are familiar with.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Which, interestingly, HIAS was the target of ire of a
great replacement theory motivated mass shooter here in America. Yes,
Babert Robert Bauers posted a lot about HYAS in the
days and weeks before he carried out that mass shooting.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, the Tree of Life Synagogue, right, people aren't familiar. Yeah,
And that was at the time of the quote unquote
migrant caravan fall of twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Would it, Yes, that would be that time period.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah, that was a pretty big time. I was in
Tijuana a lot at that time with seeing the migrant
caravan folks for interviewing folks trying to help. Yeah, coming
back to that was I remember thinking, like, what a
fucked up world. So those people didn't get refuge emissions, right,
those people were here seeking asylum. The system right now
(16:45):
is suspended, right, and as many as twelve thousand people
who have been approved are waiting for travel authorization come
to the United States.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
So they're completely in limbo.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Right, You're in limbo and at great personal risk.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, yeah, they're in I mean, people spend twenty years
in refugee camps waiting to be admitted to the United States.
And like, it's hard for me to describe I tried
to in my Darian Gap series, Right, how desperately sad
refugee camps are as places, right, And I think people
think of refugee camps as like, oh, you go there
(17:18):
for a few weeks and you sleep under a big
white ten.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
No children are born and raised there.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
People live their whole lives in refugee camps, you know,
they're the ones that they tied Bermesport. Have been there
since the nineteen forties. But they live their whole lives
often without even basic essential services. Right. I did see,
for instance, highest had a little school in LaaS Blancas,
which is one of these un refugee camps in Panama.
The reason they have a little school is because children
(17:43):
spend so long there that they miss out on their
education if they don't have a little school for them.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
And so that's just like insult to injury in this
whole process, right. It's not only is he shutting off
this avenue for refugee status for everyone else and giving
it to these people who, you know, I think it's
fair to say don't deserve it. Yeah, but he's made
this process so simple and so easy and so painless,
and that not only are they not fleeing persecution, but
they're getting this fast tracked, this easy pass.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, and like we're paying for it. I mean I
remember recently some friends and I were helping someone who'd
be admitted to the US not as a refuge actually
on a different visa category. But like they were really
having a hard time navigating the basics and funding that,
so like we were able to help them out.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I mean, obviously, international immigration is a difficult process. It
wouldn't be easy. I mean you and you've immigrated internationally, right,
It's not a simple process. No, But looking at the
people who have taken Trump up on this offer of
refugee resettlement, these appeared to be people who could have
simply immigrated had they chosen to.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, it seems that way. They could have just moved.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yeah, they could have I mean come here on like
a B one visa or like, I mean, pathways to
citizenship relatively rare if you just, like, say you want
to move to the US, right, like you just want
to become an American unless you have a bunch of money. So,
like these guys will have a pathway citizenship. It's not
quite clear how Trump said that they will have one.
(19:14):
What does that mean? I know, normally, if you're admitted
as a refugee, you can file for permanent residency in
a year, and then after a number of years you
can file to be a citizen.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
I just noticed as we're talking, so, you know, I'm
not familiar with how the process normally works. Like that's
that's your wheelhouse. That's something you're very familiar with, so
maybe this is normal. It just looks strange to me.
So I've been on vacation the last week, so I'm
just back today. So I just opened up the Embassy's
website because you know, as I was writing this story
and sort of tracking this as it developed, there wasn't
good guidance from the Consulate on what this process would
(19:46):
look like. So I'm just looking at it again today
and they have updated it as of yesterday. This is
the US Embassy and Consulate in South Africa. New update yesterday.
There is a form you can fill out, James. It's
a Google doc. It is a Google form. The US
Embassy website has a linked to Google form that you
can fill out if you want to become great.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I'm sure that's highly secure. Yeah, ah wow, Well it's funny.
I was on that web site earlier today as well.
That is oh dear, that is sad. I mean, yeah,
I don't think a Google dot can possibly be as
secure as it would need to be to have the
amount of information the government gets on you when you
(20:29):
become a refugee. Is all the information right? Just to
outline the criteria. To be eligible for US resettlement consideration,
individuals must meet the following criteria. They must be of
South African nationality and must be of African ethnicity or
be a member of a racial minority in South Africa.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
I thought it wasn't about race, Yeah, I thought. I
thought it wasn't about race.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Games Yeah, right, it seems.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And then they must be able to articulate a past
experience of persecution or fear of future persecution. What they
don't mention here is that, like normally, there are protected
categories into which refugees and asylum seekers have to fit. Right,
there's a race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social
group or political opinion. I mean, I guess, I guess
you could argue that like the Africanas are not per
(21:18):
se a race, right, like like there are there could
be It's conceivable that one could be white kind of
South African nationality but not be African.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Oh very much, so, very much so. I mean, there's
a African is a very specific sort of genealogical lineage.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yeah, and like, which is which.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Is why I think they have been careful here to
say or a member of a racial minority, because they're saying, like, look,
we're not going to do the genealogy. We don't we
don't care if your great grandfather was Dutch. We just
need you to be white. We just need you to
be white.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, when you arrive, you can do a twenty three
and meter test and then they do your percentage and
you know, then they put you back on the plane.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
No, they just got the pantone color scale. They're just
going to hold up huge colored paint hip.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, they get you at what's it called fucking the
paint shop there where you go in and they mix
it for you. So yeah, they don't mention these protected
categories here. The US State Department a set has received
eight thousand inquiries from people seeking information about the refue program.
That's a lot of people. That is a large number
of people. The Episcopal Church here in the United States, right,
(22:33):
not like a notably woke organization, I would say Episcopal.
I mean they do Episcopal migration ministries do good work.
You won't find me shaped talking that they do good
things for people who need help. It has ended its
partnership with the United States government. So I'm going to
read a little bit here from Presiding Bishop Sean wrote
first time for me, quoting a bishop on the podcast.
(22:54):
Since January, the previously bipart in the US refuge ad
missions program in which we participate has a central shut down.
Virtually no new refugees have arrived, Hundreds of staff and
resettlement agencies around the country have been laid off, and
funding for resettling refugees who have already arrived has been uncertain. Then,
just over two weeks ago, the federal government informed episcical
migration ministries that under the terms of our federal grant,
(23:17):
we are expected to resettle white Africanas from South Africa,
whom the US government has classified as refugees. In light
of our church's steadfast commitment to racial justice and reconciliation
and our historic ties was the Anglican Church of South Africa,
we're not able to take this step. Accordingly, we have
determined that by the end of the federal fiscal year,
we will conclude our refugee resettlement grand agreements with the
(23:38):
US Federal government skipping a bit. Then, it has been
painful to watch one group of refugees, selected in a
highly unusual manner, received preferential treatment over many others who
have been waiting in refugee camps or dangerous conditions for years.
I am saddened and ashamed that many of the refugees
who are being denied entrance to the United States are
brave people who worked alongside our military in Iraq and
(23:59):
Afghanistan and now face danger at home because it has
service to our country. They also grieve that victims of
religious persecution, including Christians, have not been granted refuge in
recent months.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Good for them, honestly, Yeah, like because I think, I
mean think maybe people don't think about this or don't
realize that a lot of these programs like this is
a federally grant funded federal program through a partnership with
the Episcopal Church. Like you know, in the early days
of DOSEE, you know, they were saying, like, oh, we
found all this wasteful spending, all this you know, suspicious
payments to these religious organizations. Those are social programs we
(24:31):
have outsourced. We have outsourced all of these government functions
to these church based social programs. You know, for better
or worse. Say about that what you will, but that
is in fact, how many of these things function.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah, like when I think about like you know, I've
spent a decent amount of time in refugee camps. The
majority of the services there are provided by faith paid programs.
Highest there's Bethtal World Ministries. I think it's called Catholic Charity,
Piscopalian migration ministries. There's caulca Aid, the SEK Group, right,
I don't think they receive any federal Maybe I don't
(25:03):
think they receive federal funding.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
But I think for the Episcopal Church as a massive
organization to come out and say, yeah, we won't dirty
our hands with this, that's incredible.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
No, it's great, and like more organizations should. I think
they're being resettled in Virginia for the most part.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Good.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
That's where I live.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
James, Oh good, yeah, great. Well you know you could
take one in money.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
You could have a little African to come live with
you like a god.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
So Charlottesville where I live.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Oh, you'll get some.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
It's home to a large number of Afghan refugee families.
It's like I know people who work with our new
Afghan neighbors, and like helping them get settled in our community,
and helping women get driver's license and get them sewing
machines so they can sew their traditional garments at home,
and like it's a beautiful community effort to welcome these
people into our town. But I just can't I just
(25:53):
can't imagine the worst people on Earth coming here.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah, well you can help with sewing machine, right, you
can help us sow up a little little pre pre
Rainbow Nation South Africa flag for them. But yeah, it
is like I've helped people arriving here on refugee visas,
and like it's actually a really really affirming and wonderful
thing to do in your community. And like now it's
a time when you can still do that. All the
(26:18):
people who were resettled here before January. The funding that
was supposed to help their kids enroll in school, that
were supposed.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
To help especially women learn to drive, right, that were.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Supposed to help people orient themselves in the US, find education,
find work right. As a person who moved to America,
it is a very confusing place. You have like seventy
five different layers of government, none of them really want
to help you that says a lot of forms to
fill in. The rent is insane, right, and then you
(26:49):
add people drive like fucking maniacs, so like.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
And we don't have healthcarerier James, I'm sure that was
a culture shock for you. But like so when I
was poking around in some of these Facebook groups for
these for the South Africans who are sort of interested
in maybe seeking this opportunity, and they were talking about
sort of the pros and cons and whether they would go,
and how the pole process was going to work. And
the one fear that I saw come up over and
over again is like, well I heard the healthcare is
(27:14):
pretty bad.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
There is, yeah, dude, it is, damn yeah, damn yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
In some states, right, there are state funded like safety
net programs. I don't know about Virginia.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Well I'm sure. I'm sure as America's special and only refugees,
they will be afforded access to all available programs.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, I'll put them on trycare after we've kicked the
transfolks off. That's how they're making up for the gap.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, it's pretty bleak.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Honestly, I would really encourage folks, like, if you are
listening to this and thinking, Oh, it fucking sucks that
those people have not been granted refugee status. I'm thinking
of like, I met a woman from Zimbabwe when I
was in Dari and Gap who had come with her daughter. Right,
she had face persecution at home in Zimbabwe, a country
that is not Rhodesia anymore. We're keeping score in.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
The country that was never Rhodesia. Rhodesia never existed.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Yeah, right, Yeah, she went to South Africa right to
attempt to be safe, and persecution followed her that. So
then she took this journey all across the America's carrying
her kid through the through the jungles and over the
mountains and through the rivers. And that's where I met them,
and we've stayed in touch.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
She's in the United States now, she's working on her
asylum process and it is expensive and it is by
no means secure. And this is like a woman who
has faced who fits multiple categories, right, and they've protected
they've protected categories here. Right, It's going to be very
hard and very expensive for her. And it really genuinely
(28:46):
fucking breaks my heart to see someone who like would
be such an asset to any community who was such
a ray of light, even in some of the hardest
places I've ever been. She might not get to stay
here and these folks will and that really makes me sad.
But yeah, if you have a chance in your community.
Like almost the way I sometimes find out about refugees
(29:10):
arriving or being settled is like on next door and
realist next door is mostly a site for aging racist
but like sometimes people will be like, hey, there's an
Afghan family here and they don't Like one of the
things in California is that you can rent a house
and they don't have to give you a fridge. Yeah,
a fridge is like a luxury, it's not it's not
for the pause. So like trying to help people find
a fridge before Ramadan, right, Like I have a truck,
(29:35):
a bigger guy. I can lift a fridge into the
back of my truck. If someone has a fridge they
don't want, so, like that's the thing I can do
to help, and it makes me happy to do that. Then,
like I can carry a fridge upstairs, Like that's not
something you can do. There are a million other things
you can do, right, including just like having people over
for dinner, cooking food for them, offering to take them
out on a walk and show them your neighborhood. Like
(29:56):
there are so many ways that you can welcome people,
and like people aren't newly arriving, there are people who
are still recently arrived who really could do with some help.
The government isn't paying for any more. We can't stop
the government paying for flights for Africanas. But like, you
can do something, You can do something positive and will
maybe make you feel better about the fact that you know,
(30:18):
your taxpayer dollars are bringing the the poor, downtrodden Africanas
from from South Africa to neighborhoods named Molly.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
And it's just such an ugly intersection, right, this is
not just like our adult brained president falling victim to
a racist conspiracy three that he saw on Tucker Carlson, right,
like that that's how the idea got into his mind.
But I think this resurgence of his alleged interest in
the plight of the white South African is this terrible
intersection of personal grievance and financial interest, right that. You know,
(30:52):
it's no coincidence that the text of the executive order,
it's not just about like you know, whites are being persecuted.
But there is a hot shot on the side in
the first section of the executive Order that, like well
and South Africa has been very unfair to Israel, right
that South Africa being a leading voice in the international
community on the genocide in Gaza is part of this.
(31:15):
That the inded they need to be punished for their
advocacy against the genocide when their ambassador was expelled. It
was not a coincidence that he is a Muslim South
African who has been very vocal about the genocide in Gaza,
and that he appears in public in a kufia that
he's when he was when he returned to South Africa
after being expelled from the United States. He was talking
(31:36):
about Palestine when he got home, and that's not a coincidence.
And it's also not a coincidence that Elon Musk is
currently fighting to launch Starlink in South Africa.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, so this is sort.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Of a longer explanation which just sort of in brief.
Since apartheid ended in nineteen ninety four, they have racial
equality laws that if you have a national level company
something like starlink, some that you're going to provide a
national a telecommunications contract that serves the whole country. There
has to be some black ownership of the country. They're
not saying that there can be no white executives. They're
(32:08):
not saying, you know, white people aren't allowed to do business,
but there has to be some black ownership stake in
the company. And large corporations around the world manage this
by establishing a local subsidiary that is owned locally by
a majority of black shareholders. Microsoft does it, like every
big company does it. Companies operate in South Africa. Yeah,
(32:28):
international corporations operate in South Africa, and they do it
every day and they do it easily. But Elon Musk
refuses to do that. He refuses to have any black
ownership steak in his company or a local subsidiary. So
he's not allowed to have Starlink there. And so over
the last couple of months he's been, you know, walking
out of meetings, he's been you know, yelling at the
President of South Africa about how he's racist against white
(32:48):
people and so like, this is personal, it's financial, and
it is a racist conspiracy theory and now we're all
having to live it.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, it's also not a comingcidence. So like Musk has
started interacting with some of these like white farmer accounts
on his racism map, right like that. I think that one.
I think it's maybe its screen name is just boar
or Oh yes.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
A South African news site recently unmasked that particular individual.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Oh cool.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Yeah, I haven't read the article yet. Like I said,
I've been on vacation, but they're they're on the case.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, great, good.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
And I think about these, you know, wide identity South
African nationalist kinds of guys. Is Apartheid wasn't that long ago?
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Thirty years ago? Right, So anybody fifty year older who's
talking a lot about wide identity in South Africa, I
would just like to ask you, what were you doing
in nineteen ninety? Yeah, just tell me who you were
hanging out with in nineteen ninety because I have questions.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yeah, Like I remember the end of apartheid very like
that's one of my earlier like political memories. I remember,
like Nelson Mandela coming out at the Rugby World Cup
in ninety ninety five, like that being a big people
like I guess maybe our listeners, a lot of our
listeners are younger than me. But like, South Africa was
something of a pariah state under apartheid, right, Like they
couldn't wouldn't even play sports with them. They didn't even
(34:02):
go to the IOC Olympic Games. And the IOC not
not an anti racist organization organization which famously sent the
Olympic Games to Adolf Hitler's Germany. But yeah, they were
a complete global pariah. And to have gone from that
to like the US has to intervene in the plight
of the persecuted African within my lifetime, it's pretty fucking bleak.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
It is a quick turnaround and an ugly one. But
like I said, the average white South African who is
very vocal about white rights may have a very close
connection to a very recent act of terrorism, if you
know what I'm saying. Yeah, they're not just talk. It
was very violent in the early nineties.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yes, yeah, Molly's done some good stuff on the yeah,
and on the violence of white South Africans. And I guess, yeah,
what folks in the US who are inspired by them?
Molly did, do you have anything you want to you
want to plug? Otherwords, way, I guess you want to plug.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Yeah, I mean, I'm keeping an eye on their treeson
Case against Affro Forum. I think, I mean, it's just
political talk, but it's fun.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
We'll see.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Apparently the investigation is ongoing, but no. If you are
interested in more about how this happened, I did an
eight part series about political violence at the end of
apartheid and its connections to American neo Nazis. You can
check that out on Weird Little Guys. It's a good time.
I think there's a really fun episode about a Dulf
Lundgren movie from the late eighties that was secretly funded
(35:30):
by South African military intelligence. Yeah, it's a good time
and uh, we live in hell.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
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now find sources for It Could Happen here listed directly
in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.
As media. Hello and welcome to It could happen here today.
We are talking about white genocide. And when I think
of genocide, there is only one name that comes to mind,
and it's Molly Congo.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Molly, welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I just I wanted you to be here as we
talked about the genocide of the white race.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I mean, who better to talk about it than two
pasty fellows like us.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
M hmm, yeah, yeah, I'm sure we're like soon for
the shopping block here.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Molly, what what's happening? Why? Why are we? Why are we?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Well, I will explain a little bit of what's happening,
and then you can tell me how on earth we
got here. The United States terminated its refugee admissions program
in January of this year, right when Donald Trump became
the president and signed a ton of executive orders. So
since then, the United States has not admitted any refugees.
In February, it also stopped, you know, States terminated its
(01:01):
cooperative agreement with refugee resettlement agencies, which meant that even
refugees who had arrived weren't getting the assistance that they
previously got. However, on the twelfth of May, the United
States have admitted fifty nine Africana refugees from South Africa,
and concurrently, Donald Trump told the press that what's happening
(01:23):
was a genocide of the white people. He said it
wasn't because they were white. He said there was black people,
he would do the same thing. I mean, there are
several genocides impacting black people right now, and they are
not getting refuge emissions to the United States. Apparently these
people are being genocided. So, Molly, can you explain what's
going on here? How the white genocide happened?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Sure, I mean, the short answer to that question is
it is not happening. It is not real. It is
not a thing that is happening, or in my opinion,
really could meaningfully happen under the conditions that they're talking about.
So again, like you said, they have terminated all refugee
resettlement programs. So people coming from active war zones, active
ongoing genocides, people fleeing political persecution all over the world.
(02:09):
They don't deserve our help. They don't need our help anymore. Right,
But these people, these people from South Africa, are uniquely
experiencing the worst thing that can happen to a person.
I guess which is white genocide. So white genocide I
think is often sort of used interchangeably with great replacement theory.
So the white genocide conspiracy theory and the great replacement theory,
(02:31):
I think they're hand in hand. They're very similar, there's
a lot of overlap, and they're used interchangeably, but white
genocide is much more specific and it's more recent iteration
on the theme. It comes from a mid nineties book
written in prison by a new Nazi terrorist named David Lane.
David Lane notably coined the fourteen words we you know,
(02:53):
the fourteen we don't need to say. He had a
lot of anxiety that if we don't do something, white
people will become extinct, will be pushed out of existence
by immigrants who are out breeding us. You know, there's
this sort of concurrent belief that pornography, which is, you know,
in their minds, something that is a Jewish tool of
oppression of the white race. That is, you know, it's
(03:14):
causing us to do interbreeding, it's deluding our bloodlines. So
you know, all of these things together are going to
push white people out of existence, which again not happening,
not true, not a real thing that can happen, but
it's something they're very anxious about. But when you spend
a lot of time talking about how white people are
being pushed out of existence, you've got to be able
(03:37):
to point to something. You have to point to a
place where a white person has been meaningfully harmed, and
they can't really do that. So the talking point that
they fall back on most often when you're talking about
white genocide, you know, you're really wringing your hands about this,
and you have to be able to point to something.
They point to the South African farm murders is this
idea that white farmers in South Africa are being targeted
(04:00):
for murder and mass that is this massive ongoing campaign
of violence, which again is not happening and is not true.
There is a more violent crime in the country of
South Africa than in other similarly positioned nations. They do
have a little bit more violent crime than we do here,
for instance, But if you break down the numbers, and
(04:23):
they have they have conducted a multi year study of this,
you know, hypothetical phenomenon. White farmers are not being targeted
for murder. They're not being murdered in larger numbers than
any other demographic. It's just not a thing that's happening.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, I know, it's almost like a laughable claim or
like except that it's also terribly sad when like Israel,
it's just kind of Babe ruthing a genocide in Gaza.
Now they're not even trying to pretend anymore. They're like, no,
we're going to kill everyone by starving them. That's what
we would like to do. And obviously there's people cannot
enter the United States, it's refugees, but these folks from
(04:58):
South Africa can How did it go from any Nazi
in prison to the brain of the President of the
United States.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I mean that idea sort of filtered into American right
wing think space over the last I guess thirty years
since Laine wrote that manifesto from prison, slowly and through
multiple origin points. But I have argued repeatedly over the
last several months that we can point to exactly the
(05:27):
moment that Donald Trump heard about this. There is a
specific moment in time in August of twenty eighteen when
Donald Trump first found out about the plight of the
white South African and I have the date somewhere in
my notes, but it was it was one evening in
August of twenty eighteen when he was watching Tucker Carlson Shocking.
He was watching an episode of Tucker's show back when
it was still on TV, and he had some policy
(05:49):
analysts from the Heritage Foundation on to talk about this
terrible thing that's happening. And about forty five minutes after
that segment aired, Donald Trump tweeted the word Africa for
the first time. He has tweeted thousands and thousands and
thousands of times about a lot about Robert Pattinson's relationship
with Kristen Stewart. You know, things about diet coke, things
(06:11):
about vaccines. He tweeted a lot of things, but he
tweeted about Africa for the first time forty five minutes
after the segment on Tucker Carlson. And he had bought
into this idea that these people are being uniquely persecuted.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
God. Yeah, Carlson has mainstreamed a lot of these like
white nationalists talking points, but yeah, this one. And you
have a really good series on this on your show, right, Like,
if people want to people want to learn more about
the plight of the Africana, you can explain that over
several hours.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yes, I spent three months sort of tracing this story
in hainstaking detail. If you're interested in checking that out
over on Weird Little Guys.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, and you should. It's great.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
It's great, good podcast. I highly recommend. So, like, we've
seen this thing gradually gained momentum, I guess. And then
at some point, obviously someone got into Trump's here in
the last month and he made an executive order.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Right, he shared the secretly order.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I'm going to read from it now, quote refugee resettlement
and other humanitarian considerations. The Secretary of State and the
Secretary of Homeland Security shall take appropriate steps consistent with
law to prioritize Yeah. Law, we're going to get to that,
to prioritize humanitarian relief, including a mission and resettlement through
(07:30):
the United States Refugee Admissions Program for Africanas in South
Africa who are victims of unjust racial discrimination. Such a
plan shall be submitted to the President through the Assistant
to the President and Homeland Security Advisor.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
So, like he's asking them to develop a plan.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Basically for resettling these white South Africans in the United States, right.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Right, So when he says that it's not about race.
Now when he's pushed on that now and he says, oh,
it's not about race. It's not because they're white. They
weren't Africanners years in the executive order. And that doesn't
just mean South. That's not a gemographic term for people
from South Africa.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
It is a.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Racial term for the descendants of Dutch settlers. Those people
are white.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah, no, like by definition, right, they are white South Africans.
They are like therefore definitionly the group that benefited from
the aparthe idea very much so. As if this wasn't
clear enough, Christopher Landau appeared at a press conference meeting
these refugees wearing an orange white and blue tie. It's
(08:32):
quite a unique tie. I actually googled orange white and
blue tie. Can find one for people who are not familiar.
That is the part idea of flag of the Republic
of South Africa.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
That is a deep cut. The decision to use that
particular color scheme when you're greeting these bore refugees is
very intentional and very odd.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, it's got to be a choice, right, Like, no
one has a striped orange white and navy blue tie
like lying around.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
And the sort of dedication to reviving that as a
symbol is not without precedent. So with Dylan Roof, the
Charleston church murderer had on patches, he had the flag
of Rhodesia. Obviously they love Rhodesia. Yeah, but he had
the apartheid era orange, white and blue South African flag
m M. And that was strange and unique enough as
(09:24):
a symbol that an American would dig up and identify with. Yes,
So the South African press noted it at the time
of the Charleston church shooting.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, it was not in the mainstream.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
That is a troubling sartorial choice.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, yeah, it's it is worrying, Like, like you say,
there's a line from the from the Africanas through Dylan
Roof too.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
It's horrific ideology.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Right. Do you know what what probably doesn't have a
direct line to a part We can't be sure of that,
I guess, but hopefully hopefully that these products and services
do not have a direct through line from apartheid.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Well, probably it's not the Washington State Patrol again.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, all right, we're back. Hopefully that was something nice.
I want to talk a little bit about the US
Refugee of Missions program. So I think people sometimes misunderstand
the program, what it means, where it comes from, who
(10:22):
it's for. So to begin with, like, I want to
distinguish between asylum seekers and refugees because I think in
like the popular lexicon, these two words are used interchangeably.
A refugee is outside of the United States and makes
an application through the US Refugee of Missions program, and
that application is processed and approved or rejected or delayed
(10:45):
or you know, left for years and years and years
while they are outside the United States. An asylum seeker
is someone who is either inside the United States or
presenting at the border of the United States and requesting
the asylum.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
So they're different categories.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Right. Generally, to be a refugee, one has to register
with the United Nations High Commission on Refugees, and thus
one has to have fled one's home country. It's somewhat
notable that this flight came from Johannesburg, right, Like these
people were in South Africa.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Well, the apparently DHS set up office space in Pretoria,
and they were conducted these interviews in Pretoria.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Right, which again is unusual. Right, So you have to
normally go to a resettlement support center, right, And I
want to talk about the process of background checks in
a minute, because surprise surprises didn't happen here, at least
not as far as I'm aware. If it did, it
to the most expedited version of this process that we've
ever seen. So these refugees have been admitted as P
(11:48):
one refugees, and people talk about P one like it's
a visa category.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
It's not.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Actually, it's a priority category. There are four priority categories
for people getting refugee visas. P one cases, the highest
priority are normally referred by embassies, the United Nations High
Commision on Refugees, or non governmental organizations. If people have
heard of this at all, it's probably with reference to
Afghan folks who worked with the United States who are
(12:16):
not being omitted in the United States refugee emission program
right now. Some of them are stuck in third countries,
even at airports if they don't have a visa for
that third country, right, waiting to work out like what
the US is going to do this time after lying
to them for decades and letting them down again.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
And unlike these real estate agents from Johannesburg, they can't
just go back home.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah, right, like that they actually have fear of persecution
if they do, which is not the case for you
South African folks. P two are people like there are
special groups designated for humanitarian concern like some congut these
people living in Rwanda in the past, and Permese groups
living in Thailand have been P two three are family
(13:00):
reunification cases, so you can you know, if one person
has refugee stats to come to the United States so
they can bring the rest of their family. And then
P four are people who have sponsors to something called
the Welcome Core. Familiar with a Welcome Core, Molly, I
am not, no. It sounds like the coolest brand to
the military, you know, like like you got the Marines
and then the Welcome Core next door. The Welcome Call
(13:23):
was set up in twenty twenty three by the Biden
administration to allow five US citizens I think a minimum
of five to get together to sponsor someone for refugee
admission for the United States and basically take responsibility for
their housing and for like reorienting them in the US community, right,
getting their kids enrolled in school, helping them find a job,
(13:44):
all that kind of stuff. It was a cool program.
It lasted less than two years. That Donald Trump rolled
that up in January of twenty twenty five, so we
don't really have P four cases anymore. So all admissions
were holding in January and February, the government, as I said,
cut all cooperative agreements with resettlement agencies. So let's talk
(14:06):
about what the normal process looks like for refugees. Generally,
they require several years of background checks and interviews. For many,
it's not possible in their countries for most right, for instance,
there is not a resettlement support center in Afghanistan, so
people have to leave. That's how you see them in
Pakistan right. What you're seeing now actually is Afghan people
(14:26):
who are in Pakistan have timed out on their visas
in Pakistan, so they're now facing immigration enforcement there because
they haven't been able to get resettled in the US
before their Pakistan visa expires. They go through medical and
biometric checks. There are at least two interviews. There are
security checks. When they do their first interview, they have
(14:50):
to give in things like their identifying documents, work history,
declare on their family relationships, all that kind of stuff.
Then they have an interview with US Citizenship and Immigration
services after that. Then if they are admitted, they take
cultural orientation classes before traveling. If that's when you learn
how to be an American. Right, I don't know what involves,
but they have to take those before they come. And
(15:11):
then the US government works with the iom for travel right,
and that travel is funded through a zero interest loan
to the refugee. So like in every other case, you
pay for your flight, you have to pay it back
starting six months when you get to the United States.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
That has not been.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
The case for our Africana refugee friends, right that it
appears that the United States government chartered a flight on
their behalf. Once the refugees arrive, they are referred to
a resettlement agency. Some of the names people might be
familiar with are like Highest their Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society,
who have literally been resettling refugees since the refugee in
(15:51):
asylum seeker category was created, right as a response to
the Holocaust. Maybe IRC is another one people are familiar with.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Which, interestingly, HIAS was the target of ire of a
great replacement theory motivated mass shooter here in America. Yes,
Babert Robert Bauers posted a lot about HYAS in the
days and weeks before he carried out that mass shooting.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, the Tree of Life Synagogue, right, people aren't familiar. Yeah,
And that was at the time of the quote unquote
migrant caravan fall of twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Would it, Yes, that would be that time period.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah, that was a pretty big time. I was in
Tijuana a lot at that time with seeing the migrant
caravan folks for interviewing folks trying to help. Yeah, coming
back to that was I remember thinking, like, what a
fucked up world. So those people didn't get refuge emissions, right,
those people were here seeking asylum. The system right now
(16:45):
is suspended, right, and as many as twelve thousand people
who have been approved are waiting for travel authorization come
to the United States.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
So they're completely in limbo.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Right, You're in limbo and at great personal risk.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, yeah, they're in I mean, people spend twenty years
in refugee camps waiting to be admitted to the United States.
And like, it's hard for me to describe I tried
to in my Darian Gap series, Right, how desperately sad
refugee camps are as places, right, And I think people
think of refugee camps as like, oh, you go there
(17:18):
for a few weeks and you sleep under a big
white ten.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
No children are born and raised there.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
People live their whole lives in refugee camps, you know,
they're the ones that they tied Bermesport. Have been there
since the nineteen forties. But they live their whole lives
often without even basic essential services. Right. I did see,
for instance, highest had a little school in LaaS Blancas,
which is one of these un refugee camps in Panama.
The reason they have a little school is because children
(17:43):
spend so long there that they miss out on their
education if they don't have a little school for them.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
And so that's just like insult to injury in this
whole process, right. It's not only is he shutting off
this avenue for refugee status for everyone else and giving
it to these people who, you know, I think it's
fair to say don't deserve it. Yeah, but he's made
this process so simple and so easy and so painless,
and that not only are they not fleeing persecution, but
they're getting this fast tracked, this easy pass.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, and like we're paying for it. I mean I
remember recently some friends and I were helping someone who'd
be admitted to the US not as a refuge actually
on a different visa category. But like they were really
having a hard time navigating the basics and funding that,
so like we were able to help them out.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I mean, obviously, international immigration is a difficult process. It
wouldn't be easy. I mean you and you've immigrated internationally, right,
It's not a simple process. No, But looking at the
people who have taken Trump up on this offer of
refugee resettlement, these appeared to be people who could have
simply immigrated had they chosen to.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, it seems that way. They could have just moved.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yeah, they could have I mean come here on like
a B one visa or like, I mean, pathways to
citizenship relatively rare if you just, like, say you want
to move to the US, right, like you just want
to become an American unless you have a bunch of money. So,
like these guys will have a pathway citizenship. It's not
quite clear how Trump said that they will have one.
(19:14):
What does that mean? I know, normally, if you're admitted
as a refugee, you can file for permanent residency in
a year, and then after a number of years you
can file to be a citizen.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
I just noticed as we're talking, so, you know, I'm
not familiar with how the process normally works. Like that's
that's your wheelhouse. That's something you're very familiar with, so
maybe this is normal. It just looks strange to me.
So I've been on vacation the last week, so I'm
just back today. So I just opened up the Embassy's
website because you know, as I was writing this story
and sort of tracking this as it developed, there wasn't
good guidance from the Consulate on what this process would
(19:46):
look like. So I'm just looking at it again today
and they have updated it as of yesterday. This is
the US Embassy and Consulate in South Africa. New update yesterday.
There is a form you can fill out, James. It's
a Google doc. It is a Google form. The US
Embassy website has a linked to Google form that you
can fill out if you want to become great.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I'm sure that's highly secure. Yeah, ah wow, Well it's funny.
I was on that web site earlier today as well.
That is oh dear, that is sad. I mean, yeah,
I don't think a Google dot can possibly be as
secure as it would need to be to have the
amount of information the government gets on you when you
(20:29):
become a refugee. Is all the information right? Just to
outline the criteria. To be eligible for US resettlement consideration,
individuals must meet the following criteria. They must be of
South African nationality and must be of African ethnicity or
be a member of a racial minority in South Africa.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
I thought it wasn't about race, Yeah, I thought. I
thought it wasn't about race.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Games Yeah, right, it seems.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And then they must be able to articulate a past
experience of persecution or fear of future persecution. What they
don't mention here is that, like normally, there are protected
categories into which refugees and asylum seekers have to fit. Right,
there's a race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social
group or political opinion. I mean, I guess, I guess
you could argue that like the Africanas are not per
(21:18):
se a race, right, like like there are there could
be It's conceivable that one could be white kind of
South African nationality but not be African.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Oh very much, so, very much so. I mean, there's
a African is a very specific sort of genealogical lineage.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yeah, and like, which is which.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Is why I think they have been careful here to
say or a member of a racial minority, because they're saying, like, look,
we're not going to do the genealogy. We don't we
don't care if your great grandfather was Dutch. We just
need you to be white. We just need you to
be white.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, when you arrive, you can do a twenty three
and meter test and then they do your percentage and
you know, then they put you back on the plane.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
No, they just got the pantone color scale. They're just
going to hold up huge colored paint hip.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, they get you at what's it called fucking the
paint shop there where you go in and they mix
it for you. So yeah, they don't mention these protected
categories here. The US State Department a set has received
eight thousand inquiries from people seeking information about the refue program.
That's a lot of people. That is a large number
of people. The Episcopal Church here in the United States, right,
(22:33):
not like a notably woke organization, I would say Episcopal.
I mean they do Episcopal migration ministries do good work.
You won't find me shaped talking that they do good
things for people who need help. It has ended its
partnership with the United States government. So I'm going to
read a little bit here from Presiding Bishop Sean wrote
first time for me, quoting a bishop on the podcast.
(22:54):
Since January, the previously bipart in the US refuge ad
missions program in which we participate has a central shut down.
Virtually no new refugees have arrived, Hundreds of staff and
resettlement agencies around the country have been laid off, and
funding for resettling refugees who have already arrived has been uncertain. Then,
just over two weeks ago, the federal government informed episcical
migration ministries that under the terms of our federal grant,
(23:17):
we are expected to resettle white Africanas from South Africa,
whom the US government has classified as refugees. In light
of our church's steadfast commitment to racial justice and reconciliation
and our historic ties was the Anglican Church of South Africa,
we're not able to take this step. Accordingly, we have
determined that by the end of the federal fiscal year,
we will conclude our refugee resettlement grand agreements with the
(23:38):
US Federal government skipping a bit. Then, it has been
painful to watch one group of refugees, selected in a
highly unusual manner, received preferential treatment over many others who
have been waiting in refugee camps or dangerous conditions for years.
I am saddened and ashamed that many of the refugees
who are being denied entrance to the United States are
brave people who worked alongside our military in Iraq and
(23:59):
Afghanistan and now face danger at home because it has
service to our country. They also grieve that victims of
religious persecution, including Christians, have not been granted refuge in
recent months.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Good for them, honestly, Yeah, like because I think, I
mean think maybe people don't think about this or don't
realize that a lot of these programs like this is
a federally grant funded federal program through a partnership with
the Episcopal Church. Like you know, in the early days
of DOSEE, you know, they were saying, like, oh, we
found all this wasteful spending, all this you know, suspicious
payments to these religious organizations. Those are social programs we
(24:31):
have outsourced. We have outsourced all of these government functions
to these church based social programs. You know, for better
or worse. Say about that what you will, but that
is in fact, how many of these things function.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah, like when I think about like you know, I've
spent a decent amount of time in refugee camps. The
majority of the services there are provided by faith paid programs.
Highest there's Bethtal World Ministries. I think it's called Catholic Charity,
Piscopalian migration ministries. There's caulca Aid, the SEK Group, right,
I don't think they receive any federal Maybe I don't
(25:03):
think they receive federal funding.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
But I think for the Episcopal Church as a massive
organization to come out and say, yeah, we won't dirty
our hands with this, that's incredible.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
No, it's great, and like more organizations should. I think
they're being resettled in Virginia for the most part.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Good.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
That's where I live.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
James, Oh good, yeah, great. Well you know you could
take one in money.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
You could have a little African to come live with
you like a god.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
So Charlottesville where I live.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Oh, you'll get some.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
It's home to a large number of Afghan refugee families.
It's like I know people who work with our new
Afghan neighbors, and like helping them get settled in our community,
and helping women get driver's license and get them sewing
machines so they can sew their traditional garments at home,
and like it's a beautiful community effort to welcome these
people into our town. But I just can't I just
(25:53):
can't imagine the worst people on Earth coming here.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah, well you can help with sewing machine, right, you
can help us sow up a little little pre pre
Rainbow Nation South Africa flag for them. But yeah, it
is like I've helped people arriving here on refugee visas,
and like it's actually a really really affirming and wonderful
thing to do in your community. And like now it's
a time when you can still do that. All the
(26:18):
people who were resettled here before January. The funding that
was supposed to help their kids enroll in school, that
were supposed.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
To help especially women learn to drive, right, that were.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Supposed to help people orient themselves in the US, find education,
find work right. As a person who moved to America,
it is a very confusing place. You have like seventy
five different layers of government, none of them really want
to help you that says a lot of forms to
fill in. The rent is insane, right, and then you
(26:49):
add people drive like fucking maniacs, so like.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
And we don't have healthcarerier James, I'm sure that was
a culture shock for you. But like so when I
was poking around in some of these Facebook groups for
these for the South Africans who are sort of interested
in maybe seeking this opportunity, and they were talking about
sort of the pros and cons and whether they would go,
and how the pole process was going to work. And
the one fear that I saw come up over and
over again is like, well I heard the healthcare is
(27:14):
pretty bad.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
There is, yeah, dude, it is, damn yeah, damn yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
In some states, right, there are state funded like safety
net programs. I don't know about Virginia.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Well I'm sure. I'm sure as America's special and only refugees,
they will be afforded access to all available programs.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, I'll put them on trycare after we've kicked the
transfolks off. That's how they're making up for the gap.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, it's pretty bleak.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Honestly, I would really encourage folks, like, if you are
listening to this and thinking, Oh, it fucking sucks that
those people have not been granted refugee status. I'm thinking
of like, I met a woman from Zimbabwe when I
was in Dari and Gap who had come with her daughter. Right,
she had face persecution at home in Zimbabwe, a country
that is not Rhodesia anymore. We're keeping score in.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
The country that was never Rhodesia. Rhodesia never existed.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Yeah, right, Yeah, she went to South Africa right to
attempt to be safe, and persecution followed her that. So
then she took this journey all across the America's carrying
her kid through the through the jungles and over the
mountains and through the rivers. And that's where I met them,
and we've stayed in touch.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
She's in the United States now, she's working on her
asylum process and it is expensive and it is by
no means secure. And this is like a woman who
has faced who fits multiple categories, right, and they've protected
they've protected categories here. Right, It's going to be very
hard and very expensive for her. And it really genuinely
(28:46):
fucking breaks my heart to see someone who like would
be such an asset to any community who was such
a ray of light, even in some of the hardest
places I've ever been. She might not get to stay
here and these folks will and that really makes me sad.
But yeah, if you have a chance in your community.
Like almost the way I sometimes find out about refugees
(29:10):
arriving or being settled is like on next door and
realist next door is mostly a site for aging racist
but like sometimes people will be like, hey, there's an
Afghan family here and they don't Like one of the
things in California is that you can rent a house
and they don't have to give you a fridge. Yeah,
a fridge is like a luxury, it's not it's not
for the pause. So like trying to help people find
a fridge before Ramadan, right, Like I have a truck,
(29:35):
a bigger guy. I can lift a fridge into the
back of my truck. If someone has a fridge they
don't want, so, like that's the thing I can do
to help, and it makes me happy to do that. Then,
like I can carry a fridge upstairs, Like that's not
something you can do. There are a million other things
you can do, right, including just like having people over
for dinner, cooking food for them, offering to take them
out on a walk and show them your neighborhood. Like
(29:56):
there are so many ways that you can welcome people,
and like people aren't newly arriving, there are people who
are still recently arrived who really could do with some help.
The government isn't paying for any more. We can't stop
the government paying for flights for Africanas. But like, you
can do something, You can do something positive and will
maybe make you feel better about the fact that you know,
(30:18):
your taxpayer dollars are bringing the the poor, downtrodden Africanas
from from South Africa to neighborhoods named Molly.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
And it's just such an ugly intersection, right, this is
not just like our adult brained president falling victim to
a racist conspiracy three that he saw on Tucker Carlson, right,
like that that's how the idea got into his mind.
But I think this resurgence of his alleged interest in
the plight of the white South African is this terrible
intersection of personal grievance and financial interest, right that. You know,
(30:52):
it's no coincidence that the text of the executive order,
it's not just about like you know, whites are being persecuted.
But there is a hot shot on the side in
the first section of the executive Order that, like well
and South Africa has been very unfair to Israel, right
that South Africa being a leading voice in the international
community on the genocide in Gaza is part of this.
(31:15):
That the inded they need to be punished for their
advocacy against the genocide when their ambassador was expelled. It
was not a coincidence that he is a Muslim South
African who has been very vocal about the genocide in Gaza,
and that he appears in public in a kufia that
he's when he was when he returned to South Africa
after being expelled from the United States. He was talking
(31:36):
about Palestine when he got home, and that's not a coincidence.
And it's also not a coincidence that Elon Musk is
currently fighting to launch Starlink in South Africa.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, so this is sort.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Of a longer explanation which just sort of in brief.
Since apartheid ended in nineteen ninety four, they have racial
equality laws that if you have a national level company
something like starlink, some that you're going to provide a
national a telecommunications contract that serves the whole country. There
has to be some black ownership of the country. They're
not saying that there can be no white executives. They're
(32:08):
not saying, you know, white people aren't allowed to do business,
but there has to be some black ownership stake in
the company. And large corporations around the world manage this
by establishing a local subsidiary that is owned locally by
a majority of black shareholders. Microsoft does it, like every
big company does it. Companies operate in South Africa. Yeah,
(32:28):
international corporations operate in South Africa, and they do it
every day and they do it easily. But Elon Musk
refuses to do that. He refuses to have any black
ownership steak in his company or a local subsidiary. So
he's not allowed to have Starlink there. And so over
the last couple of months he's been, you know, walking
out of meetings, he's been you know, yelling at the
President of South Africa about how he's racist against white
(32:48):
people and so like, this is personal, it's financial, and
it is a racist conspiracy theory and now we're all
having to live it.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, it's also not a comingcidence. So like Musk has
started interacting with some of these like white farmer accounts
on his racism map, right like that. I think that one.
I think it's maybe its screen name is just boar
or Oh yes.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
A South African news site recently unmasked that particular individual.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Oh cool.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Yeah, I haven't read the article yet. Like I said,
I've been on vacation, but they're they're on the case.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, great, good.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
And I think about these, you know, wide identity South
African nationalist kinds of guys. Is Apartheid wasn't that long ago?
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Thirty years ago? Right, So anybody fifty year older who's
talking a lot about wide identity in South Africa, I
would just like to ask you, what were you doing
in nineteen ninety? Yeah, just tell me who you were
hanging out with in nineteen ninety because I have questions.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yeah, Like I remember the end of apartheid very like
that's one of my earlier like political memories. I remember,
like Nelson Mandela coming out at the Rugby World Cup
in ninety ninety five, like that being a big people
like I guess maybe our listeners, a lot of our
listeners are younger than me. But like, South Africa was
something of a pariah state under apartheid, right, Like they
couldn't wouldn't even play sports with them. They didn't even
(34:02):
go to the IOC Olympic Games. And the IOC not
not an anti racist organization organization which famously sent the
Olympic Games to Adolf Hitler's Germany. But yeah, they were
a complete global pariah. And to have gone from that
to like the US has to intervene in the plight
of the persecuted African within my lifetime, it's pretty fucking bleak.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
It is a quick turnaround and an ugly one. But
like I said, the average white South African who is
very vocal about white rights may have a very close
connection to a very recent act of terrorism, if you
know what I'm saying. Yeah, they're not just talk. It
was very violent in the early nineties.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yes, yeah, Molly's done some good stuff on the yeah,
and on the violence of white South Africans. And I guess, yeah,
what folks in the US who are inspired by them?
Molly did, do you have anything you want to you
want to plug? Otherwords, way, I guess you want to plug.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Yeah, I mean, I'm keeping an eye on their treeson
Case against Affro Forum. I think, I mean, it's just
political talk, but it's fun.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
We'll see.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Apparently the investigation is ongoing, but no. If you are
interested in more about how this happened, I did an
eight part series about political violence at the end of
apartheid and its connections to American neo Nazis. You can
check that out on Weird Little Guys. It's a good time.
I think there's a really fun episode about a Dulf
Lundgren movie from the late eighties that was secretly funded
(35:30):
by South African military intelligence. Yeah, it's a good time
and uh, we live in hell.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
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James Stout
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