May 5, 2025 • 27 mins
There's been a lot of discussion in recent times around young people and the manosphere. But what about how it is impacting older generations, especially women?
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha, and welcome to Stephen
never told you protective of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And welcome to another Monday, Minnie. That is gonna be annoying.
I don't know ilse to say this, So before we
get into the meat of this conversation, please note this
is not because we're gonna be referencing like a generation
of the baby boomers or the boomers, and we're also
gonna talk about white women because this is very personal
(00:40):
to me, not that I'm a boomer or a white woman, but.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
That I have a lot of people who are and such.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
But in fact I know that people the people we
are talking about, we'll probably never hear this, and the
majority of our listeners are tired of talking about this.
But again, this is something that I needed to vent
and think through because if you're from Georgia, if you
were raised in North Georgia, then you probably have had
(01:07):
an influx of boomer women, white women telling you why
you were wrong. Because, as we've noted, people who have
voted for Donald Trump or who would consider themselves MAGA
really really feel like he's doing a great job. The
amount of like people who refuse to say anything's different
(01:28):
or wrong is unnerving, but just you know, just so
that we know.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Who we're talking about and why we're talking about it.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Again, This is very much in line with the fact
that I had a very disappointing conversation with a family
member and I needed to dissect it again. We kind
of referenced this before on my happy hour previous happy
hour and like how to kind of maintain relationships in
this time. So we're going to kind of get into
the meat of why. That was a big part of
(01:58):
my conversations. So I want to tell you exactly the scenario.
So at a recent visit, we were in the middle
of discussing someone's dating life, in which my response was
that they probably should not jump into anything too quickly
and it would be good to be single for a while.
So who I'm talking about is a man, because I
feel like that needs to be obviously referenced, in which
I was like, they probably need to be single, going
(02:20):
through really a lot of failed relationships in the past
twenty years and just being like, hey, it's probably good
to be single. And I say this as a person
who was single most of my adult life until recently
and realized very further and long further along in my
adult journey that being single was not a curse. That's
(02:40):
in fact, I was okay with that, and I learned that, hey,
it's not a bad thing, and as great as my
relationship is now because it is and we do handle things,
I think pretty well for the most part, knowing that
if for some reason, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong,
but if some reason that.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
We were to break up or anything, I would be okay.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Also the fact that I would not want to get
back up a dating pool because that dating pool looks.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Horrible.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, anyway, going back to that, all of that, so
I just reference made of sweeping comment kind of that,
and it seemed to really push the button. The family
member's defense for that person was this, do you know
why the Lord created women? So that's how I was like, Oh, all,
I said, at heded to be single, I don't know
(03:32):
what's happening, And yes, this felt like a trap, so
I hesitated, to which they responded with no, no, really,
do you know why? And I needed this to be
This is a public restaurant with several people around us
that were having a different conversation, so there was no
need for this because because like the way that even
given the conversation came up was the fact that other
(03:53):
people at the table were talking about this person's dating
life and how he had fallen into another one that
looked really suss. Everybody was like, what are you doing?
What's the beginning of this conversation too so and I
was like, oh my god, I don't know why. And
they responded with the to be helpers to men, to
assist and be there for men men were lonely and
(04:15):
needed a mate. Of course, my immediate response was, huh, well,
I don't think that's the thing. Being me trying to
figure out how to de escalate this moment as well
as get out of this moment because we're about to
have an argument, and again the defensive myth came out
and they responded with no, yes, this is the reason really,
(04:38):
and of course I was like, I can't do this.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
This is going to be bad.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
My response was to shut it down and reminded that
this person, that this one person was jumping into relationships
and have many failed relationships which formed detachments that are
no longer around, which did shut down the conversation. But
this unwarranted response really had me spiraling. It's been a
week or so, a couple of weeks, and I'm still
(05:08):
thinking about this conversation because I'm like why and with
this I want and I need to think about. I
went down like why why would we wh why would
they bring this up? This is such a weird topic.
And it was a woman obviously, and it just it's
like it came.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Out of nowhere.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
We were all kind of like laughing about not laughing
at them, but like laughing at the scenario that it
has caused. And they were like, oh, Samantha, you need
to know this, you need to hear this. You won't
believe this type of case. So I was like, what, why? Why?
Speaker 3 (05:37):
How did we jump into that?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
And then I started really thinking about how the information
has come along and like social media and my fear
of like older generations getting onto social media is already
bad enough on hearing the news when we talk about
Fox or a news nation and all those things, and
I'm like ooh or Max Newsmax rather and I was thinking,
so what is this boomer generation hearing when it comes
to the minisphere and red pill ideology? So of course
(06:04):
I have to do the sminty thing and start trying
to find research. Right, Ay, this is what we do now, right,
this is how we think now, And unfortunately it doesn't
seem to be a lot out there. I did see
a few things about them saying that the red pill
thing is good and as a reminder, you know, a
red pill like I'm a submit ips like comes back
(06:24):
from the red pill blue pill ideal with the matrix
and taking the red pills and unlock and show you
the truth.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
But like raging radical.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Misogynists took that over as being like, no, let me
show you the conspiracy theories about how feminism is killing
children in life in general, like generalization right there. But
essentially it's kind of that level, and the red pill
led into like tradwives and led into like hegemonic femininity,
which we're going to talk about at the end. Because
(06:55):
I was like, that's a great phrase, all of that,
but with all that, they were talking about it as
if it's a good thing, so I was very hesitant
to click on that. One of those happened to be
I think an episode on a podcast and the title
of it is Boomer red Pill, in that when they
were listening off different subjects. So they kind of tackle it,
(07:18):
says the Antichrist takeover of the Democratic but they put
demonic cratic, so they put the Eni. Let you know who,
the Democrats are party by the new Left, So I
think we know what that's about. And I was not
about to waste my time nor give a.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Click to that.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Of course, there's a lot that we have talked about
when it comes to women, red Pill and a Manisphere,
including different episodes about tradwives and just this recent episode
with Bridget and it's easy to see that those from
that generation, from that boomer generation, are probably primed for
this more conservative ideals of tradwives and red Pills and manisphere.
(07:58):
The generation that was taught that the nuclear family is
the ultimate goal and anything less than that, less than perfect,
means failing. So having the perfect house, having the perfect
baked pie, like all of that level, I mean, really
like the apron baked pie. You know what I'm talking
about is exactly what the red Pill in Manusfield look
at as the good old days, So that is what
(08:19):
they're talking about. But coming back to the Golden age essentially,
so it isn't surprising to see that after years of progress,
and change. Some of the boom moves are really relieved
to see this familiarity, this nuclear family coming back on
(08:43):
board as the new Yes, this is the new trend
we need to be on And here are some thoughts
from therapists dot com about it. Quote Silent generation parents
which apparently are the generation before the Boomers, and I
didn't think about that. I was like, oh, yeah, that
makes sense. The baby Boomers often with strict rules, high expectations,
(09:03):
and less warmth and affection. We now know that strict
authoritarian parenting style is linked to children developing anxiety, low
self esteem, and social difficulties later in life. Many boomers
grew up in a time of economic prosperity and social
change with the rise of consumerism and the influence of television.
They experienced significant cultural events like the Cold War, the
(09:25):
civil rights movements, and the rise of rock and roll.
These experiences shape their values, attitudes, and perspectives of life, work,
and family. As they entered adulthood, Baby Boomers often prioritized
career success and material wealth. They were known for their
strong work ethic and competitive drive. However, this focus on
achievement also led to high levels of stress and burnout
(09:46):
for some. So that level of like is such an
interesting dichotomy that they grew up in such a progressive era,
which we wouldn't even think is progressive because we're still
finding that same, but that so many people have such
harsh pushbacks. And I'm saying that in the perspective again
of the South, old South white Appalachia families. Old South,
(10:10):
and I say applation because that's close to us, but
old Southern areas where segregation was prevalent until pretty much
now honestly sundowntown still exists. And to add to that,
some statistics from the site, and I thought that we
very interesting because it does I think it kind of
points to yeah, this makes sense. So they say they
(10:30):
make up a large portion of the population. This is
from twenty twenty four. Baby Boomers were the largest generation
in the US until Millennials surpass them in number. Data
from the twenty twenty census shows us that there are
approximately seventy three million baby boomers in the US. US
Census Bureau data from twenty nineteen shows baby boomers make
up approximately twenty two percent of the population. They're less
(10:53):
diverse than the overall population. According to the twenty fifteen Census,
seventy five percent of baby boomers are white, which was
interesting to me. Seventy five percent of the baby boomers
are white, they held more traditional gender identities. Baby Boomers
have seen the transformation from the solent generation traditional values
to the more progressive attitudes of Generation X millennials and
(11:16):
Gen Z. A recent poll shows that the lgbtqia plus
identification goes up with each younger generation. Of the baby
boomer generation, only two point six identified as lgbdqia plus
compared to the twenty point eight of Gen Z. Of course,
there's a lot of conversations about coming out and who
felt they could and who have died before they could.
(11:37):
That was also added into but that is something to
know because yes, they also fear coming out. Still, their
views on sexuality are still evolving. A twenty eighteen p
Research Center survey found that only twenty seven percent of
boomer's believe same sex marriage benefits society. On the other hand,
thirty two percent think it's detrimental and forty percent it
(12:00):
has no impact. Only twelve percent personally knows someone who
uses gender neutral pronouns. Why should that so random? Statistic
to put in but you know that makes sense too, right,
maybe because just because they don't want to tell them
who knows. Also, it says less than a quarter of
them pursued higher education. Only twenty two percent of boomer
(12:22):
men and twenty percent of boomer women completed at least
four years of college education. And then they talk about
the wealth. That's well, that they had a lot of wealth.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
So it goes on.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
They played a significant role in shaping the modern American
economy in suburban's expansion, Baby boo boomers have controlled more
than fifty percent of households wealth in the US since
two thousand and eight. And that's according to Federal Reserve data. Okay,
so looking at some of those stats, and in this conversation,
of course, this is that same conversation that millennials and
now gen zers are having about like, no, we could
(12:55):
not afford a house like you could. Interest rates has
gone up thanks to Reagan, we have lost control of
being able to get money in any way or any
kind of infrastructure like you have made sure to vote
this way in order that the rest of us cannot
have what you had. So the amount of wealth that
went to anybody.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Was to you.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
And then you took it away with this bullshit about
trickle down economy. But again, this is that level of like, Okay,
this makes sense as to some boomers, especially from the South,
especially white people, have always been on the side of
red pill, that modern idea that if we just do
it this way like the old days, you can be
(13:35):
successful without acknowledging everything else that went terribly wrong. So
with looking at these statistics as well as their upbringing
and idealization of the past, it's not too hard to
understand that boomer generation may be more more than willing
to push that narrative. Like they they've done well. They've
done well in this level of what they thought was
(13:56):
good days, and white women specifically have always been the
backbone of many of the movements we've talked about those
for all the movements, including white supremacist movements. Here's something
from red Pill Women, Heterosexual Fantasies and Misogynistic Spaces by
Pauline Hobanks and y'all her paper. Y'all should go read it.
(14:18):
It's very long, but it hits on a lot of things.
She writes, women's involvement in conservative and white supremacist movement
is far from new in fact, white women have historically
played pivotal roles in these ideologies long before the advent
of contemporary social media. The historical roots of women's involvement
in white supremacists and conservative movements in America has been
(14:40):
documented in movements such as anti suffragism, the resistance the
Equal Rights Amendment, and the klu Klux Klan, in which
women played key roles in organizing, recruiting, and disseminating ideas.
Some of these movements, such as the KKK, excluded women
from men's groups. However, as Bushetta and Power to researchers note,
(15:01):
these exclusions allow them to construct their own discourses and
practices independently challenging gender power dynamics. Women's involvement in the
menisphere and online anti feminist movements is therefore a contemporary
extension of the longstanding historical pattern of white women's active
participation in right wing and white supremacist movements. Okay, so
(15:27):
I'm not I'm not gonna break that down because i
feel like that's self explanatory, and we've talked about this
many times and again, I'm not saying all white women,
but this does explain to me a lot more in
this conversation about the white women in my life, not
you any of course, and many of those that I
know that are not in the Moon generation, but those
(15:47):
that who have taught me and at in this level
of like, why would you do this? This doesn't help you,
this doesn't empower you. Are you truly happy? In so
many so much contact, and Bridget does a wonderful job
talking about the influence of white women in the conversations
like these as well as in our recent episode about
(16:09):
the ev magazine. So you should definitely listen to that
because we are talking about how powerful these types of
conversations are. And then when it comes to white women
specifically who play leaderships in these roles even though they're
not supposed to play leadership in these roles. And so
to kind of backtrack on that story, after that conversation,
(16:31):
it was obvious that we were all uncomfortable, and I
walked away going, yeah, so I'm not coming home anytime soon.
But then obviously weighed on them as well. So they
sent me a text with a video link about trying
to explain this to me, and now the video in itself,
I have had this conversation as a Christian when I
(16:51):
was way back when about how if someone representing you
this kind of is that ideal, if someone representing you
actually does represent your ideals, that you don't have to
be the forefront leader in that. So that's wonderful in
that idea that men, if they are truly godly men,
as they would say, they would actually do for the
benefit of everyone, and you being a helper and being
(17:12):
behind him and you know, pushing him on and great,
all good and well. So that kind of narrative was like, Okay,
I kind of see what you're saying, and they said,
I don't think I explained this right, and I used
the wrong words in their response. But then as I
looked to the page that they sent me to, it
had very right winged, misogynistic content at below. Also, they
(17:35):
were tokenizing I believe a Muslim woman as to agreeing
with some of these and I don't think it's hard.
I think they just like aied her or like copy
pastes from a different page to make it look like
she was agreeing with all the content on there. That
I was like, are you trying to show your diverse?
Are you trying to partel like you're showing your diversity
(17:55):
in this when you also have right wing people who
are talking about, you know, women don't have orgasms, they
only have sex to have children and police men. You're like,
what is this? So again, this is where I was like, yeah,
so I was correct. She is getting some information from
very right winged conservative ideas that would be considered a
(18:18):
part of the manisphere or red pills. And I want
to go on to another bit from Hopeanks. How she
talks about hegemonic femininity, as I mentioned earlier, so unlike Connall's,
(18:39):
so she has obviously a lot of research in this paper.
So I'm going to name some of the things and
you can go back to look at her paper as
mentioned earlier, But unlike Connall's nineteen eighty seven emphasized femininity,
which is largely about compliance. Hamilton argue that hegemonic femininity
involves active participation in upholding not just gender inequality, but
(19:00):
also other access of domination such as race and class,
which is what we're talking about. Intersectionality, I guess, discrimination.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Level, yeah, intersexual discrimination.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
So they continue on. Hamilton defined hegemonic femininities as the
most celebrated cultural ideals of womanhood in a given time
and place that serve to uphold and legitimate all axes
of oppression in the matrix of domination. Simultaneously and again
goes on. Women who embody hegemonic femininity benefit from the
(19:38):
femininity premium individual advantages over other women, as well as
collective benefits derived from their privileged positions within other systems
of dominations, such as whiteness and class privilege. In Western
society's femininity premiums might include access to privileged partners and
the ability to enforce standards of sexual respectability over subordinate femininities.
(20:02):
And lastly, the pursuit of hegemonic femininity, despite its detrimental
effects on women as a group, can be understood as
strategic bargain that offers specific women personal advantages, which, compounded
with the collective class and race benefits from which they
may already benefit, contribute to intersectional domination. Hamilton argue that
(20:23):
these women are not cultural dopes, but instead actors strategically
navigating for an advantage. Okay, so this would be the
prime of what we were trying to talk about with
ev magazine, which is owned by a woman who says
women should not be leaders or CEOs, but is CEO
of our own company?
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, And I think I think that's like hit the
nail on the head of a lot of what we've
been talking about, especially with Bridget because even Candice Owens
it narrowed in on here's this business side can make
money from. So I do think like, sometimes it is
(21:04):
completely internalized. Sometimes it's a completely understood strategic choice. Sometimes
it's both. But I do think like people know, oh
I could I will really benefit from this privilege, this privilege,
this privilege.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I mean, I hate the word, but this would be
in today's terms, the ultimate pick me mm hmmm, in
that every way, knowing that they've got these advantages and
if they can at least submit to the most powerful,
they'll be second most powerful and that's good enough. But again,
(21:44):
this whole is there's so much to be said about
this article or this paper written by Home Banks, which
thank you, because it's an amazing paper. Obviously I've just
gotten to the like meat of it. Well again, we
probably need to cut. We do need to come back
and do a whole episode about this idea of hegemonic
huminity and what it represents and why it's so dangerous. Again,
(22:05):
as I was saying earlier, women are really the backbone
of all these movements. I don't think it could have
I don't think it could be as powerful as it
was if it weren't for other women. Like Moms for
Liberty really did a number in what we see today.
And it turns out she's gone through a whole The
founder is going through a whole thing, and no one
cares because it's kind of taken in the life of
its own. But with these two combining factors from what
(22:29):
I'm seeing with the baby boomer generation and the idea
of hegemonic huminity, it isn't too hard to see how
easily these narrative is adopted by that generation. Again, they
were pried for it when we talked about like trilla
ways and like celibate culture, all of these It is
based on these old school ideas way back when when
we talk about the beginning of like anti abortion moves,
(22:51):
it wasn't until the fifties sixty seventies that really came
out as like wait, what, why do you care?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Now?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
What's happening? So there's a lot of levels to this thing.
And even though I could not find it because again
it may just be oxy moron to say that is
the minisphere of influence, But I've seen the difference, and
I've talked about this with you, ay, and I've talked
about this with my partner and other people, the difference
of where some of my family members were ten years
(23:18):
ago versus today, and the hope I had of like
things changing and at least them being compassionate and empathetic
to this again that.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
I'm like, oh, yeah, we're not gonna talk for.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
A while, Like I'm gonna need a break because this
is dangerous points where like we're gonna end up ruining
the relationship. But it never like I will always be
there for my family, of course, no matter what. But
there are gonna be things that I no longer trust you,
and I stopped trusting you for a while on some
of these things. And these are like, because you will
(23:52):
not hear me when I say I am petrified for
my well being because of these things that you have
voted for. And then the fact that you really don't
see as a big deal because at least you're getting
yours is what your thoughts are, and at least it's
not you like without hearing me. But all of that
to say, and then putting that cap on with but no,
this is the better, this is why it's better, and
(24:14):
then bring in these theories that have been regurgitated now
and now welcomed.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
It's the thing.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
But yeah, so I, like I said, I was having
trouble and finding a lot of information, especially if like generationally,
if it's different and how well we've talked about like
the older generation is being really susceptible to misinformation disinformation,
but we are not talking about it as much as
we've talked about like the younger generation, because that's all
(24:45):
like it's very obvious.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
We talked about like.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
The young kids, the young gen z men being really
disappointing in that they're listening to people like Joe Rogan
and the suche and Charlie Kirk who's on that on
that page that she said me but like stuff like that,
that is the reaction, Yes, that is the correct reaction.
(25:12):
But a lot of these things like it's concerning and
I hate that. That's how I see them a lot
of the older generations.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
I'm like, you.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Love so hard, but of course it seems like you
hate just as hard. You just don't call it hate.
You now call it like Bible or religion, and that's
really disappointing. But yeah, if y'all have something, if you
know things, let me know if you have experiences. I know,
like I said, our listeners are like, that's not me.
I know, we know it's not you. I've gotten but
(25:49):
just like, okay, you do you. But like most of
the people who have ever commented or talked to us
of like the amount.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Of like.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Hope I get from those are amazing, so please send
us that. So obviously we're not talking about that, but
then general like as I'm looking at the world around
us on what how this has become such an okay
standard and trying to figure out at one point, how
do we go backwards? Because we were moving nicely forward
and then all of a sudden we backtracked and it's
(26:21):
like what just happened?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yes, yes, and we know so many of you listeners
unfortunately can relate, but fortunately we can provide solace for
each other, hope for each other, or whatever it is.
If you would like to emails, you can our emails
hello at Stuffnever Told You dot com. You can find
us on Blue Sky, at momstera podcast, or Instagram and
(26:44):
Tic Doot at stuff I've Never Told You. We're also
on YouTube, we have a tea Bobok store, and we
have a.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Book you can get ready to get your books.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Thanks as always to your super producer Christina or executive
producer My andker Chip for Joey, thank you, and thanks
to you for listening Stuff Never Told You inspection if
I heard here for our podcasts from my Heart Radio,
you can check out the ghart you app Apple podcast
or if you listen to your favorite shows
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha, and welcome to Stephen
never told you protective of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And welcome to another Monday, Minnie. That is gonna be annoying.
I don't know ilse to say this, So before we
get into the meat of this conversation, please note this
is not because we're gonna be referencing like a generation
of the baby boomers or the boomers, and we're also
gonna talk about white women because this is very personal
(00:40):
to me, not that I'm a boomer or a white woman, but.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
That I have a lot of people who are and such.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
But in fact I know that people the people we
are talking about, we'll probably never hear this, and the
majority of our listeners are tired of talking about this.
But again, this is something that I needed to vent
and think through because if you're from Georgia, if you
were raised in North Georgia, then you probably have had
(01:07):
an influx of boomer women, white women telling you why
you were wrong. Because, as we've noted, people who have
voted for Donald Trump or who would consider themselves MAGA
really really feel like he's doing a great job. The
amount of like people who refuse to say anything's different
(01:28):
or wrong is unnerving, but just you know, just so
that we know.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Who we're talking about and why we're talking about it.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Again, This is very much in line with the fact
that I had a very disappointing conversation with a family
member and I needed to dissect it again. We kind
of referenced this before on my happy hour previous happy
hour and like how to kind of maintain relationships in
this time. So we're going to kind of get into
the meat of why. That was a big part of
(01:58):
my conversations. So I want to tell you exactly the scenario.
So at a recent visit, we were in the middle
of discussing someone's dating life, in which my response was
that they probably should not jump into anything too quickly
and it would be good to be single for a while.
So who I'm talking about is a man, because I
feel like that needs to be obviously referenced, in which
I was like, they probably need to be single, going
(02:20):
through really a lot of failed relationships in the past
twenty years and just being like, hey, it's probably good
to be single. And I say this as a person
who was single most of my adult life until recently
and realized very further and long further along in my
adult journey that being single was not a curse. That's
(02:40):
in fact, I was okay with that, and I learned that, hey,
it's not a bad thing, and as great as my
relationship is now because it is and we do handle things,
I think pretty well for the most part, knowing that
if for some reason, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong,
but if some reason that.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
We were to break up or anything, I would be okay.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Also the fact that I would not want to get
back up a dating pool because that dating pool looks.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Horrible.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, anyway, going back to that, all of that, so
I just reference made of sweeping comment kind of that,
and it seemed to really push the button. The family
member's defense for that person was this, do you know
why the Lord created women? So that's how I was like, Oh, all,
I said, at heded to be single, I don't know
(03:32):
what's happening, And yes, this felt like a trap, so
I hesitated, to which they responded with no, no, really,
do you know why? And I needed this to be
This is a public restaurant with several people around us
that were having a different conversation, so there was no
need for this because because like the way that even
given the conversation came up was the fact that other
(03:53):
people at the table were talking about this person's dating
life and how he had fallen into another one that
looked really suss. Everybody was like, what are you doing?
What's the beginning of this conversation too so and I
was like, oh my god, I don't know why. And
they responded with the to be helpers to men, to
assist and be there for men men were lonely and
(04:15):
needed a mate. Of course, my immediate response was, huh, well,
I don't think that's the thing. Being me trying to
figure out how to de escalate this moment as well
as get out of this moment because we're about to
have an argument, and again the defensive myth came out
and they responded with no, yes, this is the reason really,
(04:38):
and of course I was like, I can't do this.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
This is going to be bad.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
My response was to shut it down and reminded that
this person, that this one person was jumping into relationships
and have many failed relationships which formed detachments that are
no longer around, which did shut down the conversation. But
this unwarranted response really had me spiraling. It's been a
week or so, a couple of weeks, and I'm still
(05:08):
thinking about this conversation because I'm like why and with
this I want and I need to think about. I
went down like why why would we wh why would
they bring this up? This is such a weird topic.
And it was a woman obviously, and it just it's
like it came.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Out of nowhere.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
We were all kind of like laughing about not laughing
at them, but like laughing at the scenario that it
has caused. And they were like, oh, Samantha, you need
to know this, you need to hear this. You won't
believe this type of case. So I was like, what, why? Why?
Speaker 3 (05:37):
How did we jump into that?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
And then I started really thinking about how the information
has come along and like social media and my fear
of like older generations getting onto social media is already
bad enough on hearing the news when we talk about
Fox or a news nation and all those things, and
I'm like ooh or Max Newsmax rather and I was thinking,
so what is this boomer generation hearing when it comes
to the minisphere and red pill ideology? So of course
(06:04):
I have to do the sminty thing and start trying
to find research. Right, Ay, this is what we do now, right,
this is how we think now, And unfortunately it doesn't
seem to be a lot out there. I did see
a few things about them saying that the red pill
thing is good and as a reminder, you know, a
red pill like I'm a submit ips like comes back
(06:24):
from the red pill blue pill ideal with the matrix
and taking the red pills and unlock and show you
the truth.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
But like raging radical.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Misogynists took that over as being like, no, let me
show you the conspiracy theories about how feminism is killing
children in life in general, like generalization right there. But
essentially it's kind of that level, and the red pill
led into like tradwives and led into like hegemonic femininity,
which we're going to talk about at the end. Because
(06:55):
I was like, that's a great phrase, all of that,
but with all that, they were talking about it as
if it's a good thing, so I was very hesitant
to click on that. One of those happened to be
I think an episode on a podcast and the title
of it is Boomer red Pill, in that when they
were listening off different subjects. So they kind of tackle it,
(07:18):
says the Antichrist takeover of the Democratic but they put
demonic cratic, so they put the Eni. Let you know who,
the Democrats are party by the new Left, So I
think we know what that's about. And I was not
about to waste my time nor give a.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Click to that.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Of course, there's a lot that we have talked about
when it comes to women, red Pill and a Manisphere,
including different episodes about tradwives and just this recent episode
with Bridget and it's easy to see that those from
that generation, from that boomer generation, are probably primed for
this more conservative ideals of tradwives and red Pills and manisphere.
(07:58):
The generation that was taught that the nuclear family is
the ultimate goal and anything less than that, less than perfect,
means failing. So having the perfect house, having the perfect
baked pie, like all of that level, I mean, really
like the apron baked pie. You know what I'm talking
about is exactly what the red Pill in Manusfield look
at as the good old days, So that is what
(08:19):
they're talking about. But coming back to the Golden age essentially,
so it isn't surprising to see that after years of progress,
and change. Some of the boom moves are really relieved
to see this familiarity, this nuclear family coming back on
(08:43):
board as the new Yes, this is the new trend
we need to be on And here are some thoughts
from therapists dot com about it. Quote Silent generation parents
which apparently are the generation before the Boomers, and I
didn't think about that. I was like, oh, yeah, that
makes sense. The baby Boomers often with strict rules, high expectations,
(09:03):
and less warmth and affection. We now know that strict
authoritarian parenting style is linked to children developing anxiety, low
self esteem, and social difficulties later in life. Many boomers
grew up in a time of economic prosperity and social
change with the rise of consumerism and the influence of television.
They experienced significant cultural events like the Cold War, the
(09:25):
civil rights movements, and the rise of rock and roll.
These experiences shape their values, attitudes, and perspectives of life, work,
and family. As they entered adulthood, Baby Boomers often prioritized
career success and material wealth. They were known for their
strong work ethic and competitive drive. However, this focus on
achievement also led to high levels of stress and burnout
(09:46):
for some. So that level of like is such an
interesting dichotomy that they grew up in such a progressive era,
which we wouldn't even think is progressive because we're still
finding that same, but that so many people have such
harsh pushbacks. And I'm saying that in the perspective again
of the South, old South white Appalachia families. Old South,
(10:10):
and I say applation because that's close to us, but
old Southern areas where segregation was prevalent until pretty much
now honestly sundowntown still exists. And to add to that,
some statistics from the site, and I thought that we
very interesting because it does I think it kind of
points to yeah, this makes sense. So they say they
(10:30):
make up a large portion of the population. This is
from twenty twenty four. Baby Boomers were the largest generation
in the US until Millennials surpass them in number. Data
from the twenty twenty census shows us that there are
approximately seventy three million baby boomers in the US. US
Census Bureau data from twenty nineteen shows baby boomers make
up approximately twenty two percent of the population. They're less
(10:53):
diverse than the overall population. According to the twenty fifteen Census,
seventy five percent of baby boomers are white, which was
interesting to me. Seventy five percent of the baby boomers
are white, they held more traditional gender identities. Baby Boomers
have seen the transformation from the solent generation traditional values
to the more progressive attitudes of Generation X millennials and
(11:16):
Gen Z. A recent poll shows that the lgbtqia plus
identification goes up with each younger generation. Of the baby
boomer generation, only two point six identified as lgbdqia plus
compared to the twenty point eight of Gen Z. Of course,
there's a lot of conversations about coming out and who
felt they could and who have died before they could.
(11:37):
That was also added into but that is something to
know because yes, they also fear coming out. Still, their
views on sexuality are still evolving. A twenty eighteen p
Research Center survey found that only twenty seven percent of
boomer's believe same sex marriage benefits society. On the other hand,
thirty two percent think it's detrimental and forty percent it
(12:00):
has no impact. Only twelve percent personally knows someone who
uses gender neutral pronouns. Why should that so random? Statistic
to put in but you know that makes sense too, right,
maybe because just because they don't want to tell them
who knows. Also, it says less than a quarter of
them pursued higher education. Only twenty two percent of boomer
(12:22):
men and twenty percent of boomer women completed at least
four years of college education. And then they talk about
the wealth. That's well, that they had a lot of wealth.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
So it goes on.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
They played a significant role in shaping the modern American
economy in suburban's expansion, Baby boo boomers have controlled more
than fifty percent of households wealth in the US since
two thousand and eight. And that's according to Federal Reserve data. Okay,
so looking at some of those stats, and in this conversation,
of course, this is that same conversation that millennials and
now gen zers are having about like, no, we could
(12:55):
not afford a house like you could. Interest rates has
gone up thanks to Reagan, we have lost control of
being able to get money in any way or any
kind of infrastructure like you have made sure to vote
this way in order that the rest of us cannot
have what you had. So the amount of wealth that
went to anybody.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Was to you.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
And then you took it away with this bullshit about
trickle down economy. But again, this is that level of like, Okay,
this makes sense as to some boomers, especially from the South,
especially white people, have always been on the side of
red pill, that modern idea that if we just do
it this way like the old days, you can be
(13:35):
successful without acknowledging everything else that went terribly wrong. So
with looking at these statistics as well as their upbringing
and idealization of the past, it's not too hard to
understand that boomer generation may be more more than willing
to push that narrative. Like they they've done well. They've
done well in this level of what they thought was
(13:56):
good days, and white women specifically have always been the
backbone of many of the movements we've talked about those
for all the movements, including white supremacist movements. Here's something
from red Pill Women, Heterosexual Fantasies and Misogynistic Spaces by
Pauline Hobanks and y'all her paper. Y'all should go read it.
(14:18):
It's very long, but it hits on a lot of things.
She writes, women's involvement in conservative and white supremacist movement
is far from new in fact, white women have historically
played pivotal roles in these ideologies long before the advent
of contemporary social media. The historical roots of women's involvement
in white supremacists and conservative movements in America has been
(14:40):
documented in movements such as anti suffragism, the resistance the
Equal Rights Amendment, and the klu Klux Klan, in which
women played key roles in organizing, recruiting, and disseminating ideas.
Some of these movements, such as the KKK, excluded women
from men's groups. However, as Bushetta and Power to researchers note,
(15:01):
these exclusions allow them to construct their own discourses and
practices independently challenging gender power dynamics. Women's involvement in the
menisphere and online anti feminist movements is therefore a contemporary
extension of the longstanding historical pattern of white women's active
participation in right wing and white supremacist movements. Okay, so
(15:27):
I'm not I'm not gonna break that down because i
feel like that's self explanatory, and we've talked about this
many times and again, I'm not saying all white women,
but this does explain to me a lot more in
this conversation about the white women in my life, not
you any of course, and many of those that I
know that are not in the Moon generation, but those
(15:47):
that who have taught me and at in this level
of like, why would you do this? This doesn't help you,
this doesn't empower you. Are you truly happy? In so
many so much contact, and Bridget does a wonderful job
talking about the influence of white women in the conversations
like these as well as in our recent episode about
(16:09):
the ev magazine. So you should definitely listen to that
because we are talking about how powerful these types of
conversations are. And then when it comes to white women
specifically who play leaderships in these roles even though they're
not supposed to play leadership in these roles. And so
to kind of backtrack on that story, after that conversation,
(16:31):
it was obvious that we were all uncomfortable, and I
walked away going, yeah, so I'm not coming home anytime soon.
But then obviously weighed on them as well. So they
sent me a text with a video link about trying
to explain this to me, and now the video in itself,
I have had this conversation as a Christian when I
(16:51):
was way back when about how if someone representing you
this kind of is that ideal, if someone representing you
actually does represent your ideals, that you don't have to
be the forefront leader in that. So that's wonderful in
that idea that men, if they are truly godly men,
as they would say, they would actually do for the
benefit of everyone, and you being a helper and being
(17:12):
behind him and you know, pushing him on and great,
all good and well. So that kind of narrative was like, Okay,
I kind of see what you're saying, and they said,
I don't think I explained this right, and I used
the wrong words in their response. But then as I
looked to the page that they sent me to, it
had very right winged, misogynistic content at below. Also, they
(17:35):
were tokenizing I believe a Muslim woman as to agreeing
with some of these and I don't think it's hard.
I think they just like aied her or like copy
pastes from a different page to make it look like
she was agreeing with all the content on there. That
I was like, are you trying to show your diverse?
Are you trying to partel like you're showing your diversity
(17:55):
in this when you also have right wing people who
are talking about, you know, women don't have orgasms, they
only have sex to have children and police men. You're like,
what is this? So again, this is where I was like, yeah,
so I was correct. She is getting some information from
very right winged conservative ideas that would be considered a
(18:18):
part of the manisphere or red pills. And I want
to go on to another bit from Hopeanks. How she
talks about hegemonic femininity, as I mentioned earlier, so unlike Connall's,
(18:39):
so she has obviously a lot of research in this paper.
So I'm going to name some of the things and
you can go back to look at her paper as
mentioned earlier, But unlike Connall's nineteen eighty seven emphasized femininity,
which is largely about compliance. Hamilton argue that hegemonic femininity
involves active participation in upholding not just gender inequality, but
(19:00):
also other access of domination such as race and class,
which is what we're talking about. Intersectionality, I guess, discrimination.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Level, yeah, intersexual discrimination.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
So they continue on. Hamilton defined hegemonic femininities as the
most celebrated cultural ideals of womanhood in a given time
and place that serve to uphold and legitimate all axes
of oppression in the matrix of domination. Simultaneously and again
goes on. Women who embody hegemonic femininity benefit from the
(19:38):
femininity premium individual advantages over other women, as well as
collective benefits derived from their privileged positions within other systems
of dominations, such as whiteness and class privilege. In Western
society's femininity premiums might include access to privileged partners and
the ability to enforce standards of sexual respectability over subordinate femininities.
(20:02):
And lastly, the pursuit of hegemonic femininity, despite its detrimental
effects on women as a group, can be understood as
strategic bargain that offers specific women personal advantages, which, compounded
with the collective class and race benefits from which they
may already benefit, contribute to intersectional domination. Hamilton argue that
(20:23):
these women are not cultural dopes, but instead actors strategically
navigating for an advantage. Okay, so this would be the
prime of what we were trying to talk about with
ev magazine, which is owned by a woman who says
women should not be leaders or CEOs, but is CEO
of our own company?
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, And I think I think that's like hit the
nail on the head of a lot of what we've
been talking about, especially with Bridget because even Candice Owens
it narrowed in on here's this business side can make
money from. So I do think like, sometimes it is
(21:04):
completely internalized. Sometimes it's a completely understood strategic choice. Sometimes
it's both. But I do think like people know, oh
I could I will really benefit from this privilege, this privilege,
this privilege.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I mean, I hate the word, but this would be
in today's terms, the ultimate pick me mm hmmm, in
that every way, knowing that they've got these advantages and
if they can at least submit to the most powerful,
they'll be second most powerful and that's good enough. But again,
(21:44):
this whole is there's so much to be said about
this article or this paper written by Home Banks, which
thank you, because it's an amazing paper. Obviously I've just
gotten to the like meat of it. Well again, we
probably need to cut. We do need to come back
and do a whole episode about this idea of hegemonic
huminity and what it represents and why it's so dangerous. Again,
(22:05):
as I was saying earlier, women are really the backbone
of all these movements. I don't think it could have
I don't think it could be as powerful as it
was if it weren't for other women. Like Moms for
Liberty really did a number in what we see today.
And it turns out she's gone through a whole The
founder is going through a whole thing, and no one
cares because it's kind of taken in the life of
its own. But with these two combining factors from what
(22:29):
I'm seeing with the baby boomer generation and the idea
of hegemonic huminity, it isn't too hard to see how
easily these narrative is adopted by that generation. Again, they
were pried for it when we talked about like trilla
ways and like celibate culture, all of these It is
based on these old school ideas way back when when
we talk about the beginning of like anti abortion moves,
(22:51):
it wasn't until the fifties sixty seventies that really came
out as like wait, what, why do you care?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Now?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
What's happening? So there's a lot of levels to this thing.
And even though I could not find it because again
it may just be oxy moron to say that is
the minisphere of influence, But I've seen the difference, and
I've talked about this with you, ay, and I've talked
about this with my partner and other people, the difference
of where some of my family members were ten years
(23:18):
ago versus today, and the hope I had of like
things changing and at least them being compassionate and empathetic
to this again that.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
I'm like, oh, yeah, we're not gonna talk for.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
A while, Like I'm gonna need a break because this
is dangerous points where like we're gonna end up ruining
the relationship. But it never like I will always be
there for my family, of course, no matter what. But
there are gonna be things that I no longer trust you,
and I stopped trusting you for a while on some
of these things. And these are like, because you will
(23:52):
not hear me when I say I am petrified for
my well being because of these things that you have
voted for. And then the fact that you really don't
see as a big deal because at least you're getting
yours is what your thoughts are, and at least it's
not you like without hearing me. But all of that
to say, and then putting that cap on with but no,
this is the better, this is why it's better, and
(24:14):
then bring in these theories that have been regurgitated now
and now welcomed.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
It's the thing.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
But yeah, so I, like I said, I was having
trouble and finding a lot of information, especially if like generationally,
if it's different and how well we've talked about like
the older generation is being really susceptible to misinformation disinformation,
but we are not talking about it as much as
we've talked about like the younger generation, because that's all
(24:45):
like it's very obvious.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
We talked about like.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
The young kids, the young gen z men being really
disappointing in that they're listening to people like Joe Rogan
and the suche and Charlie Kirk who's on that on
that page that she said me but like stuff like that,
that is the reaction, Yes, that is the correct reaction.
(25:12):
But a lot of these things like it's concerning and
I hate that. That's how I see them a lot
of the older generations.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
I'm like, you.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Love so hard, but of course it seems like you
hate just as hard. You just don't call it hate.
You now call it like Bible or religion, and that's
really disappointing. But yeah, if y'all have something, if you
know things, let me know if you have experiences. I know,
like I said, our listeners are like, that's not me.
I know, we know it's not you. I've gotten but
(25:49):
just like, okay, you do you. But like most of
the people who have ever commented or talked to us
of like the amount.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Of like.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Hope I get from those are amazing, so please send
us that. So obviously we're not talking about that, but
then general like as I'm looking at the world around
us on what how this has become such an okay
standard and trying to figure out at one point, how
do we go backwards? Because we were moving nicely forward
and then all of a sudden we backtracked and it's
(26:21):
like what just happened?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yes, yes, and we know so many of you listeners
unfortunately can relate, but fortunately we can provide solace for
each other, hope for each other, or whatever it is.
If you would like to emails, you can our emails
hello at Stuffnever Told You dot com. You can find
us on Blue Sky, at momstera podcast, or Instagram and
(26:44):
Tic Doot at stuff I've Never Told You. We're also
on YouTube, we have a tea Bobok store, and we
have a.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Book you can get ready to get your books.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Thanks as always to your super producer Christina or executive
producer My andker Chip for Joey, thank you, and thanks
to you for listening Stuff Never Told You inspection if
I heard here for our podcasts from my Heart Radio,
you can check out the ghart you app Apple podcast
or if you listen to your favorite shows
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