April 30, 2025 • 42 mins
Scott Peterson was convicted of murdering his pregnant wife, Laci Peterson, and their unborn son, Conner, in 2003. He was sentenced to death, but the sentence was later overturned. He is now serving life in prison without parole.
The Los Angeles Innocence Project has filed a petition to overturn Peterson’s conviction, citing new scientific evidence and witnesses who support his innocence.
Attorneys with the Innocence Project argue that the break-in at the Medina home across the street from the Petersons’ and the subsequent arson of the burglars’ van were not properly investigated. They also allege potential Brady violations by the Modesto Police Department and the Stanislaus County District Attorney's Office.
The attorneys further claim that medical research has advanced since Peterson’s conviction and now indicates Conner’s fetal growth was consistent with a date of death later than prosecutors presented at trial. Prosecutors maintain that Conner was likely expelled from Laci’s decaying body shortly before the remains were discovered.
Joining Nancy Grace today,
- Mike Belmessieri - Juror #4 in the Scott Peterson trial, Former Chief of Staff at Marine Corps, League Department of California, Facebook: @mike.belmessieri
- Troy Slaten - Los Angeles Criminal Defense Attorney, Slaten Lawyers, APC; X @TroySlaten
- Dr. Jorey L Krawczyn - Psychologist, Faculty Saint Leo University; Consultant Blue Wall Institute, Author: Operation S.O.S.
- Jon Buehler - Former Detective in Scott Peterson Investigation, Former Detective for Modesto Police Department
- Al Brocchini - Former Detective in Scott Peterson Investigation, Former Modesto Police Detective
- Tami Ballard - DNA and Crime Scene Consultant, Crime Scene Investigation and Reconstruction, Former DNA Criminalist in the San Francisco Police Dept. Crime Laboratory
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet" and Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" X@JoScottForensic
- Kristine Lazar - Emmy award-winning investigative reporter at KCAL CBS Los Angeles, cbsla.com, Instagram & Facebook: @cbslakristine
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Scott Peterson shock claim that
his unborn son, his unborn baby boy, Connor's body, proves
he's innocent, that he did not murder Lacy Peterson and
(00:24):
their unborn child Connor. Really, good evening, I'm Nancy Grace.
This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, my father love call, He went, saying, well, morning,
my daughter has been lifting this morning. Eight months pregnanty
took her dog for a walk full of heart from here.
God came home with the belief shock dog came back
forgot you got it?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Peter Peter pry White.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Portuguesay, she's twenty six.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Then come back that we don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
We've just got a call from our son in law
that he left at twenty at nine, the play off
at home about a half hour ago, nowhere around way
walked it in here and that's part.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
He said.
Speaker 6 (01:29):
Pardon eight months pregnant? Did it ever strike you?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Joining me in All Star panel, But there are three
guests that everybody wants to talk to no offense to
the other guests joining us is Jero number four, and
I guess we can reveal his name now. Mike Belmacieri
joining us also with me. Al Brakini, detective on the case.
(01:57):
That name is dedicated to memory Forever and also tattooed
on my brain.
Speaker 6 (02:02):
John Buehller, another.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Detective on the Scott Peterson case. I mean, let me
just start with you, John, did this strike you at
the very beginning? Why isn't her husband calling nine to
one one?
Speaker 7 (02:14):
Well, yeah, there were a lot of things that struck
us with him. His behavior was very unusual from the start,
and even when Al was dealing with him, there were
a lot of things that came up that we just
don't see that often when we're dealing with people that
are suffering.
Speaker 8 (02:26):
A loss like this.
Speaker 7 (02:27):
Even though he didn't know she was well, he knew
she was dead, but nobody else.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Did you say something like that, John Bueller? You can't
just drop a bomb and then not put out the fire.
What thing struck you right off the bat?
Speaker 7 (02:39):
Well, when you know this, Nancy and most of your
viewers do too. When people have an emergency like this
in the family and somebody loved is missing and they
just they're frantic, They're just all over the place. They
got one hundred questions for us. They're constantly bugging us
about why aren't you doing this, Why aren't you doing that?
We only have so many resources available, and we're trying
to answer their questions and knew the job at the
(03:01):
same time. But the only one of all these people,
whether it was Lacey's friends or family or any associates,
the only one who wasn't frantic about this the whole
time was Scott And that is unusual. We've seen it before.
Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but it's just one more
piece of circumstantial evidence that convinced us that he did it.
Putting the case together, and then obviously it can you
(03:21):
can convinced Mike and the other juris or the other
jury members that he had done it.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, I'll tell you one thing you told me about
Bueller that I didn't know, and I thought I knew
every fact of the case, was that once Lacey and
Connor's bodies had washed up on the shore, her in
horrible decomposition, and baby Connor like a pristine little baby doll,
(03:46):
like one of those plastic little baby dolls you get
at the Dollar Tree.
Speaker 6 (03:52):
He was in perfect shape. You tell Peterson, we just
got the DNA back. The body is Lacey, And what
did he say? Within minutes, I'll.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Take a double double with cheese fry and a vanilla
milkshake at the in and out.
Speaker 6 (04:10):
Within minutes he wanted a double double.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
You know what when I was told my fiance was killed,
and at that moment, I didn't know it had been
a murder.
Speaker 6 (04:19):
I thought there was a car crash. I don't think
I ate again for I don't even know how long
I lost out to eighty nine pounds.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I remember the first thing I consumed, it was some
orange juice. I don't know how much longer.
Speaker 6 (04:31):
After that, but he was happy to get a double double.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Within minutes of learning that dead body, those horribly decomposed
remains were Lacey. Alborhini joining me a name that many
people have only read about or heard about. ALBERKINI leading,
along with Bueller, the investigation into Lacey and Connor's disappearance.
Al did it ever strike you right at the get go?
(04:55):
Why is it Peterson calling nine one one.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
I don't know if that struck me as much as
some of the other things, but I mean, he he
was out. His father in law told him go check
the neighbors. He did what he was told. He forgot
what he was doing. I mean, he first neighbor thought
he was golfing when he was fishing. But that didn't
strike me. But what did strike me was he wouldn't
(05:18):
take a polygraph. He said he would on that night,
on the December twenty fourth, and he refused on the
twenty fifth, and then he made us get a search
warrant to search his house on the December twenty sixth,
search his phone, search his computer. And it was all
I told him, It's like, we want to just check
and see if maybe she had a place, he had
(05:38):
a stalker, maybe she had a boyfriend you don't know about.
Maybe there was some strange things in the house that
we couldn't look for. On the twenty fourth and he won,
you know, he made us get a warrant, and so
that was and he refused the polly. So those were
some red flags right in the beginning. Still didn't push
me over the edge thinking that she was dead or
(05:59):
that he did it. But those were besides coming straight
home from fishing and taking the dirty clothes out of
the washer and washing his own clothes, just his clothes.
I mean, those were all red flags.
Speaker 6 (06:12):
Too, just his clothes.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Okay, that's a whole other can of worms right there,
that he sullenly turned neat Nick and only wanted to
wash his clothes.
Speaker 9 (06:22):
See.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
I knew he did laundry, but I didn't remember he
only washed his own clothes.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Mike, Bill Mascieri joining US Jero number four, former chief
of staff with the Marine Corps.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
I remember injury selection. I wanted you because chief of staff,
Marine Corps. Okay, they don't play all right, Mike? Did
it strike you right at the get.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Go when you're sitting there listening to that nine to
one one call and you think where was he?
Speaker 6 (06:52):
Why didn't he call the moment he realized his wife
was missing?
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Well, Nancy, For myself, I like to listen to everything
and finish the story and make a decision. My feeling was,
I wasn't there. I didn't know what was going on,
But it was strange, but not so strange that I
would think he was doing anything that wasn't right, so
(07:18):
to speak. I could have been out looking, could have
been doing a lot of things. Ron Grantsky made the call.
It was important to get to get somebody on the
street to start looking for and that's what was important.
Speaker 10 (07:34):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
You know with Scott Peterson, it's not one thing, it's
all the things. You just you just can't pick at
point to one in my in my opinion, which with
a buck, I couldn't buy a cup of coffee. But
you know you can't say, Okay, this is what happens. Oh,
(07:55):
this makes it guilty. No, you have to take a
look at the entire picture and you have to put
it all together. And the only way you can do
that and do it right is in the man in
which we did it during deliberations without any outside influences.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Mike Bell Mescieri, j'reror number four in the Scott Peterson trial.
Speaker 6 (08:19):
I'm so glad you said what you just said, because
if you had said.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Anything else, defense Attorney Troy Slayton would have had a
field day that you made up.
Speaker 6 (08:29):
Your mind the moment you heard the nine one one call.
But that's not what he said, is it, Slayton?
Speaker 11 (08:35):
That's not what he said. But you also didn't ask
him if his opinion would change now if he heard
new information, and there is new information that is dropping
just recently in this twenty year old case.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Nancy straight out to renowned death investigator, Professor forensics Jacksonville
State University.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
And author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
The star of a Hitting You podcast series, Body Bags
with Josephcott Morgan Joe Scott, thank you for.
Speaker 6 (09:05):
Being with us.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
What is Garag's claiming now using baby Connor's body as
some type of exculpatory evidence.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
What?
Speaker 12 (09:15):
Yeah, hey, look, you can't have it both ways. Remember
what the defense team also said. They said that whoever
these people were that were responsible for Lacey's death, they
actually cut his body out of herbs. Remember that, That's
what they argued. You can't have it both ways. So
the body is intact to a great degree. Remember they
(09:39):
were talking about you'd mentioned right from the top, Nancy,
that Connor's remains were I'm not wordying about that were
not necessarily pristine, but compared to Lacey's body, so that
leads us to believe that the body was in fact protected.
What I'm saying here is you can't have it both ways.
You can't say that some unknown phanom out there fantoms
(10:00):
took a knife and removed this baby's precious body from
mama's body and disposed of them individually into debate. It
doesn't make sense. So now they want to backtrack and
say that well, gestationally from the age perspective, that the
numbers all wrong. The initial study that this expert that
(10:21):
the prosecution called those numbers were based on actual nineteen
seventy studies from I can't remember the exact year, but
jump forward.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
There have been published. In nineteen eighty four the study
was published, and that study was what the expert at
trial relied upon to date to age the fetus Connor.
Speaker 12 (10:48):
Yeah, and so one of the things that happens, just
so everybody knows this, this is how we do this,
all right, It's very simple. When we have a fetus,
we're going to measure gestational I would be very curious
if this individual that was the expert actually physically held
his remains, held Connor's remains and did the examine like
(11:09):
they did in the morgue. The data that we get
from the morgue is based in these areas. We do
what's called a crown rump measurement, we do a crown
heel measurement, we do head circumference. There's a couple other things,
but one of the most important things is that we
look at what will refer to as the gyri and
the sulside, the kind of wavy little lines in the brain,
(11:30):
and we get a baseline off of that for age.
At twenty weeks you begin to get gyri, which are
these kind of bumps on the brain. Before that, the
brain is smooth. So we start off at that level
just to try to understand where they are gestationally. The
problem is is that they're pinning this to just a
couple of days. There's no way, there's no way you
(11:53):
can tie it down this closely scientifically.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, let me go to the
three experts who were there during the trial and actually
weighed the evidence. First of all, to Brukinnie, you know what,
if all of that went over anybody's head, mine or
(12:22):
a gerrar's.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
Head, you can go back, fall back on common sense.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
The defense is now arguing in another push to have
Scott Peterson walk free. They are now saying baby Connor's
body proves that Lacey died after the twenty fourth, such
as as late as January the fifth, and therefore, since
(12:48):
Peterson was under a microscope at that point, he's not
the killer. That's the significance of Connor's body. Okay, Bueller,
common sense. Lacy's body was extremely decomposed, Okay.
Speaker 6 (13:02):
Connor's was not. What does that prove?
Speaker 1 (13:06):
The medical examiner at the time said that Lacey's body
decomposed in the water of San Francisco Bay.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
One of the.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Last muscles to decompose, the thickest muscle, is the uterus.
To protect the baby, she was already in great decomposition,
and finally her uterus decomposed later than the rest of
her body. The uterus came apart, it disintegrated, and baby
(13:33):
Connor came out. That's why he was protected from the elements,
and she was not fast forward right now, since Lacey
was so decomposed and Connor was so pristine in comparison,
that shoots their theory to hell and back.
Speaker 7 (13:55):
Well, I think it does. Yeah, I think it does.
But you know, this is one of those things they're
just trying to throw things against the world to see
what's going to stick. But the only problem is is
you're just going to have a battle of experts here,
and it's going to be up to whoever reviews this
information to decide who's right on that. But to me,
it's not an exacting science. I'm not a scientist or
anything like that, not a biologist, but to me, it's
(14:15):
just not an exacting science where you can pin it
down to.
Speaker 10 (14:18):
That many days.
Speaker 7 (14:18):
But if they do, that's going to poke holes in
their burglary theory and the things that go along with that.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
And why let me throw this to al BROKINI.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Why would this new theory that Peterson has come up
with As he's twiddling his thumbs, he's probably having a
glass of Bruno behind bars right now, Brickhini, How would
this new theory they've come up with ruin his burglary theory?
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Well, I can tell you one thing. If they think
she was alive till the from the twenty eighth to
the January fifth in Modesto and being hidden somewhere, whether
there's a five hundred thousand dollars reward out for information
for her return, that's crazy. There's nobody in Modesto. Those
burglars especially, he could buy them off for about fifty
(15:04):
bucks five hundred thousand dollars. Somebody is going to talk.
She was gone by then the twenty fourth. She was
not in Modesto no more. She was on her way
to Berkeley, And that's all I can say about that.
Speaker 6 (15:20):
So, Mike, you're number four, Mike Bellmacieri.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Does anybody really believe that a bunch of men, typically
men in white suits, hauled around a microscope, can tell
a female juror the exact day of gestational age, because
you know what, my children were born six weeks early. Okay,
(15:48):
so I don't buy any of that, But what I
do buy is the condition of the bodies. Are they
trying to argue Lacy was kept alive for all those
days and then sliced open to get Connor. But then
they decided, oh yeah, we don't want the baby anymore.
Now that we've kidnapped her and taken the baby out
of her, we're just gonna throw them in San Francisco Bay.
(16:10):
That doesn't even make sense.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Mike Nancy. You hit on an interesting point, common sense,
but we have to realize common sense is not common.
Number one, Number two Gargos. Garagos put on an expert
witness called doctor March. That's his definition of expertise. We
(16:33):
all know how that went. Also, you know, Garagos reaches
for a lot of straws. He on one interview, and
I believe al BROKINI was present with a great bartas
he suggested during intimidation, during deliberations. Well, he wasn't in
(16:53):
the room.
Speaker 13 (16:53):
I was.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
That's a lie. Regarding the issue of where the bodies
were found. I suppose there's some science now that says
that he couldn't have done it because they were dumped
in a different area. If we all go back to
the night or the day prior to the remains being discovered,
(17:19):
there was a terrible storm, and so you can't you
know when you have storms. And I've spent a lot
of time on the bay, and you know, things change,
and so.
Speaker 10 (17:32):
You know, I don't you know.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
And as far as the science, we're talking about days,
and I don't think that we've come to a point
in our lives where science is so exact that we
could say this is this is the absolute this with
a botny question is when Connor was what was killed?
Speaker 10 (17:53):
So to speak?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
And of course, you know, things in twenty one years,
it's been almost since we issued that verdict, things have changed.
But I don't believe that we're so arrogant to think
that we're so good at things, and we aren't we
you know, somebody once told me, there's no absolutes. Well,
I'll give you an absolute I'm absolutely convinced that Scott
(18:18):
Peterson is guilty of murdering his wife. And I'm born child.
And when the La Innocence Project called me, that's exactly
what I told them, and they want so, well, we're
gonna listen.
Speaker 10 (18:31):
I go again.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
I'll listen to anything you have to say. I'm a
reasonable man, but you know, don't peel on my leg
and tell me it's.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Raining convicted double killer Scott Peterson trying every trick in
the book to walk free. Does he have a chance
thanks to the LA Innocence Project.
Speaker 6 (18:50):
Well, listen to this.
Speaker 14 (18:51):
I was searching for my family. I wanted to search,
to continue stay in contact with Ambry Thotty, and she
would get into the picture of complicated ruin the search
for what.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Okay, that's Scott Peterson in Peacock's face to face with
Scott Peterson explaining why he kept leading Amber Fry, his mistress,
on after Lacy and Connor went missing, well after he
killed them, and the community the nation was searching frantically
for them. He says, I was searching for my family. No,
(19:26):
he didn't, and I wanted to search to continue. No,
he didn't, and I stayed in touch. I stayed in
contact with Amber so she wouldn't get into the picture
and complicate it and ruin the search.
Speaker 6 (19:40):
Have you ever heard a.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Bigger load technical legal term of BS in your life?
Let me just throw that out to BRAKINI ever heard
a bigger load of stinking's, smoking, steaming BS.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
I've never heard a bigger load. And for him to
predict to Amber three weeks before she was missing that
he lost his wife just to keep her, you know,
he predicted it. He predicted that he's going to lose
his wife three weeks before. So I don't know what
(20:20):
he's talking about, saying he was keeping her in there.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, I remember he said it would be his first
Christmas without Lacey.
Speaker 6 (20:27):
Boo who Okay, Now there is another.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Claim in addition to baby Connor's fetus proves he's innocent.
Now there's another claim advanced by the la ip La
inn Project.
Speaker 6 (20:42):
Listen.
Speaker 13 (20:42):
Defense attorneys also want to present an analysis by a
forensic document examiner who claims it's Lacy Peterson's handwriting and
notes on the cost of anchors, indicating Scott Peterson did
not buy his vote in secret as part of a
plan to kill his wife. Finally, the lawyer say, a
Ponscha owner will testify that he was contacted by the
police about a Croton watch pawned by an associate of
(21:06):
one of the Medina burglars on December thirty first, just
seven days after Lisey was reported missing. On the stand,
investigators testified they never located Lisey's Croton watch.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Well, there go the police lying again in the Scott
Peterson case.
Speaker 6 (21:20):
It's all your fault. I hope you know it. I
hope you know that. By the time this is over,
they're going.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
To claim Burkini and Bueller did it. Okay, Bueller, let's
throw this to you. What did you get up on
the stand and lie about the Croton watch? On the
face of it, right there, I see that it's entirely consistent.
They say that a pawn shop owner states police came
to investigate the watch that was similar to Lacey's. Not Lacey's,
(21:48):
but similar, and investigators on the stand state they never
located the watch.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
I don't see what's he inconsistent about that?
Speaker 7 (21:56):
Yeah, I don't either, because my recall on that as
George Stower was the detective was working the burglary along
with several others, and not only were they able not
to find the Croton watch, they weren't able to show
that any of the property that was associated with the
Peterson's was ever recovered from the burglars. The burglar surrendered
property from several other burglaries besides the one that was
(22:17):
across the street at the Medina's house, and they did
it almost without being asked, because they were so afraid
that when they went to Stanslot County Jail that they'd
be attacked in there because of the victim in this case.
And so when it comes to the burglary, it was
thoroughly investigated by those guys, and they even polygrabed both
of the burglars, and they wanted to parade those results
(22:39):
around to the other inmates in the jail to show
that they didn't have anything to do with this. But
like al had said earlier in the broadcast, anybody who
was involved in this on the burglary side for five
hundred thousand dollars to return Lacey, they would have been talking.
There's no way that they would have kept a secret
if they were. Yeah, they were pollied, and they cleared.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
They did, and they immediately So glad you reported that
that's always been a murky, question worthy burglar's polygraphed about
kidnapping Lacey.
Speaker 6 (23:09):
And let me throw this to brukkini Al. The defense
is now claiming, in a bid to.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Get Peterson free, that Lacy Peterson really knew about the
secret boat that I contend was used to transport her
body to the San Francisco Bay and dump her because
of handwritten notes in her handwriting about the cost of
the anchors, they say, proof she knew all about the boat.
Speaker 6 (23:35):
Is that true?
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Well, there was a handwritten note on the nightstand. I
can't say who wrote it, but Scott told me that
the anchors were too expensive. That's why he made one.
And I talked to the person that sold the boat,
and Scott was the only one there. And the only
proof I have that Lacy knew anything about the boat
(23:56):
was the fact that her hair was found wrapped around
a pair of flyers inside the boat on when we
serve the search one on the twenty six.
Speaker 6 (24:05):
Twined in the needle.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Nos, plyers not just touching them like a touch transfer
of hair, but intertwined in them. Tammy Ballard, crime scene
consultant and Reconstructions, What does it mean to you that
her hair was intertwined in the needle nosed pliers. It
was not a transfer of a hair.
Speaker 9 (24:29):
That tells me that this was some situation where her
hair is probably removed depending on what kind of root
material was present, And very much would expect that to
be something that is a good piece of evidence for
that on.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
And all we hear about the burglary that happened across
the street from Lacy's home. I've been to the neighborhood many,
many times. It's a beautiful little neighborhood. But hear what
Ghiagoes has to say about that.
Speaker 8 (25:07):
The prosecution stood up an opening and said she was
dead on the twenty third. By the end of the
case they had changed that theory because it had been proven.
I think throughout the case that she was alive on
the twenty fourth. That you can have a mountain of
circumstantial evidence, but when you change the date dramatically from
(25:28):
one day to another on a circumstantial murder case, that
alone supplies reasonable doubt.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
That was from our friends.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Harvey Levin at TMZ two angry men with Mark Geragos.
Now this is a significance of the burglary, actually Christill
Lazar joining me Emmy Award winning investigative reporter k cal CBS.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
What is a significance. How is the defense using.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
The burglary across the street to suggest Lacey was taken
in connection with the burglary?
Speaker 6 (26:04):
What are they saying?
Speaker 15 (26:05):
They're trying to come up with a different motive and
say that Lacey saw the burglars, interrupted a burglary or
question them, and then they essentially had to take her
and get rid of her because she was a witness.
But you know, as others have pointed out, there was
so many people looking for Lacy Peterson. There was a
lot of money that was offered as a reward. I
(26:25):
find it hard to believe, having sat through the trial,
that that is a plausible motive and that she wouldn't
have been found alive had it been burglars who took
her and not her own husband.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Specifically, the la Innes's Project is arguing this.
Speaker 16 (26:41):
The attorneys also argue that the break in at the
Medina's across the street from the Petersons and subsequent arson
of the burglars van was not properly investigated as being
tied to Lacey's disappearance. They claimed the Medina burglary occurred
on Christmas Eve, not December twenty sixth as the jury heard.
They also claimed Modesto police intentionally destroyed recordings of the
burglars interviews with details on how and when the burglary
(27:05):
occurred to hide that fact.
Speaker 6 (27:12):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Welcome back to the La Innocence Project insisting Scott Peterson
is innocent, making many four fetched claims and here's another one.
Speaker 17 (27:28):
On the day Scott was convicted, after the ninth day
of deliberation, after removing three of the jurors, the prosecution
handed us a report from the Chino prison with a
lieutenant who had overheard a prisoner talking to his relative
talking about the burglary and talking about Lacey, and the
(27:49):
brother of the relative telling.
Speaker 8 (27:51):
Him to shut up.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
At prison guard overheard Lacey's name on one of the
burglar's phone calls. The prison guard says the burglars started
to discuss Lacey seeing and confront them, but the person
on the line told him to stop talking. The lawyers
claim the eyewitness account is exculpatory because it shows Lacey
was still alive after the Medina's left home around ten
thirty am.
Speaker 14 (28:12):
Yeah, there was a virtuey costas people from home, a
lot of people, and I believe that Lacy went over there.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
It's to see what was going on. Okay, you were
just hearing our friends at Two Angry Men podcast, Harvey
eleven and Mark Girigos and Peacock's face to face with
Scott Peterson hold on straight to al BRAKINI So the
state hands the defense a document that says a lieutenant
(28:47):
within the jail overhears an inmate speaking to a relative.
They hear Lacey's name come up, and then somebody says
stop talking.
Speaker 6 (28:57):
Stop talking. What if anything does that prove Lacy as
it relates to the burglary. That's it.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
Well, that was pretty well investigated after we found out
about it. I mean, they went down and interviewed that lieutenant.
He couldn't find the tapes, couldn't find the log where
there was any names, and eventually he recanted, and that
came up even from the defense attorney said that he
recanted all that. I don't know if he said it
for money or if he said it for reward, but
(29:27):
he recanted. There's no tape, there's no log where anybody
showed where you have to log in that somebody's making
a phone call or he's on the phone. And so
I don't think that holds any water. Does any good
for Scott Peterson?
Speaker 6 (29:43):
Do Jory Crassen joining me?
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Renowned psychologists, faculty Saint Leo University, author of operations, Doctor Jory,
thank you for being with us. This is excruciating to
Lacey's family. Sharon 's husband, Grant Sky Ron Grants Sky
has passed away. Now she's all alone, she has her
(30:06):
son still alive. This reopens the wounds again. I mean
it gets your RS investigators upset to hear these wild claims.
Speaker 6 (30:19):
But what does it do to Lacy's family?
Speaker 10 (30:23):
You know, being a victim yourself to violence, experiencing it,
it retraumatizes and it takes you right back to that
very moment. Okay, even though it's been twenty years, rest
assured myself. Also being a victim of violence resulting in death,
you relive that moment. It takes your way back to
(30:46):
it retraumatizes you, It disrupts your sleep. Then you start
to build like you know what is what if he
does get a new trial, what if he does do this, this,
this all that starts to build out, And that's that's
very difficult to deal with. And you know, it's just
(31:06):
the way our system is built, you know, where he
can challenge these things. But the victims once again are
being revictimized and being retraumatized by this whole new episode
that's developing.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
And how can one strip of a duck tape demand
Scott Peterson be released.
Speaker 18 (31:27):
Peterson's new defense says multiple witnesses tie the orange van
found burned near the Modesto airport to the burglary at
the Medinas's home, and the stained mattress in the back
should have been tested more thoroughly after presumptively testing positive
for blood while testing of a small sample only revealed
a male profile. The Innocence Project argues the entire mattress
(31:48):
should have been tested, despite a judge disagreeing with them
on the same point. Last year, this was brought up.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
To the judge, Christine Lazarge winning US from KCLCBSLA. The
judge said, Okay, the mattress has already been tested.
Speaker 6 (32:04):
That's mail DNA.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
What the defense is claiming is that this van, this
orange van that was burned up shortly after Lacey went missing,
shortly after the burglary, there it is is somehow connected
to the burglary. They've extrapolated that this must be connected.
There was a burned out mattress in the back of
it that was tested. It showed mail DNA. But there
(32:29):
was a piece of duct tape found stuck to Lacey's leg.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
All right, The defense is now arguing.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
The mattress in the back of the van was not
tested enough and they want more testing on that. Why
do they want the duct tape found on Lacey's leg tested?
Speaker 15 (32:49):
Well, look, they're looking for other DNA evidence. They're looking
for a way to link her murder to someone else,
to the burglar's. To me, again, as someone who sat
through the trial, it feels like they're grasping for straws.
But that's what they're doing right now. I will say
here in Los Angeles, in this newsroom, we were all
(33:10):
very surprised when the La Innocence Project took up this case.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Joscott Morgan, What could they possibly want with the piece
of duct tape that was on Lacy's leg.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
After all that time in the water.
Speaker 12 (33:23):
Well. One of the things that we're looking for what
to refer to as plastic prints, that is in the
adhesive on the tape itself, if it's protected in any way,
say that part that's adherent to her leg, Did anybody
touch the adherent side with their bare hand, You can
get a print off that. They would also want to
look for any kind of hair deposition, because it can
(33:45):
catch hair at any moment in tom tape. Can We've
all experienced that over the years, and certainly if if
it was like torn, if you grab it with your teeth,
which you know I've done over the years, tear the tape,
you can do a deposition of saliva on there. So
those are the things that I guess in a perfect
(34:06):
world they'd be hoping for. But we're talking about a
body that was in San Francisco Bay, Nancy, that's a
very harsh environment. I don't know what they would mean nasty, Well, yeah,
I mean, and I'm a fisherman, and there's all kinds
of stuff that collects on all types of items out here.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Now, there's another issue related to this, Troyce s Layton
joining me renowned to la criminal defense attorney troy it
was months ago that the judge ordered further DNA testing
on that piece of duct tape attached to Lacey's leg.
Speaker 6 (34:41):
I think she was still wearing pants attached to that.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
And don't you know, Troyce Layton, the judge said, you
got forty five days to complete the testing it needed
to be testing. That was forty five days from her
July twenty fourth ruling. Don't you know if that duct
tape had revealed anything that exonerated Scott Peterson, they would
(35:06):
have been running back and forth in front of the
courthouse with it waving it he's innocent.
Speaker 6 (35:13):
But we haven't heard a word.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
One of the first times gear Ages has shut his
pie hole ever. Don't you know if that had come
back to exonerate Peterson, we'd all be hearing about it.
Speaker 11 (35:26):
Well, we wouldn't, Nancy, because one of the part's important
parts about the judge's order, where she laid out very
specifically how this private company is to conduct the testing.
She said that any results are to be returned to
the court under seal, which means that nobody's allowed to
talk about it, nobody's allowed to see it, nobody's allowed
(35:47):
to know about it except the court, so there wouldn't
be waving it around in front of the courthouse and
no one would be allowed to talk about it.
Speaker 14 (35:57):
You can and dessemble it for me that you had
lost your wives and now also in your wife's missus.
Speaker 6 (36:05):
Alive, where she's alive media.
Speaker 8 (36:09):
I've been telling everyone that I had come to through disaparent.
Speaker 19 (36:13):
I met Scott Peterson November twentieth, two thousand and two.
I was introduced to him. I was told he was unmarried.
Scott told me he was not married. We did have
a romantic relationship. When I discovered he was involved in
the disappear of the Lacy Peterson disappearance of the case,
(36:35):
I immediately contacted the Modesto police.
Speaker 6 (36:37):
Department amberfer I had no idea Peterson was married.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Hey, Troy Slayton, will you listen to that where she said, uh,
well she's alive and he completely ignored that, didn't answer that.
He's still leading on his mistress. He's still here's another
technical legal phrase, up wants to get a her pants.
Still his wife is missing, and he is still calling
(37:06):
Amber Fry trying to get with her.
Speaker 11 (37:08):
Well that recording, Nancy was at the behest of the
police department. She became an agent of the government by
conducting uh surveillance and surreptitious recordings of Peterson.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
And so yes, have you ever never.
Speaker 6 (37:29):
Have you never?
Speaker 5 (37:31):
Uh?
Speaker 11 (37:33):
Have you ever known someone to lie in order to
have sex? Oh? My goodness? Should that be crazy to everybody?
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah? Actually that I agree with. But not while your
wife an unborn baby are missing. No, I haven't just Peterson.
Speaker 6 (37:50):
You know what, Let's put the icing on the cake.
Listen ever.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
Ever, ever hear me?
Speaker 17 (38:03):
Dear there there.
Speaker 11 (38:10):
Ever?
Speaker 17 (38:12):
Hey, happy their.
Speaker 6 (38:14):
Going to thank you?
Speaker 9 (38:18):
Are right there?
Speaker 5 (38:19):
Yes, I wish you could give me.
Speaker 8 (38:23):
I'm on the eye.
Speaker 19 (38:24):
I think that you're there.
Speaker 17 (38:26):
I'm my year, the I book, our New Year's unreal. God,
it's huge.
Speaker 6 (38:33):
Yeah, the crowd is huge at your wife's vigil. The
crowd is huge.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
There you hear Troy Slayton, Scott Pearson. I remember she
goes missing December twenty four. This is New Year's Eve,
December thirty one, midnight, and he is calling from Lacey's vigil,
calling his mistress, pretending he's ringing the New year in Paris.
(39:02):
Now you seem to argue that Scott Peterson's intent was
not in because police were recording it.
Speaker 6 (39:13):
What does their recording have to do with what's going
on in his pants.
Speaker 11 (39:16):
What I'm saying is a man is lying in order
to try and have sex with this woman. That's what
he's doing. It's very simple, it's very I'm.
Speaker 6 (39:26):
Going to stop there to like.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
To Mike Bell Mascieri, Mike, you're the Gerrard, You're our
number four.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
I'm most then, and I understand what Troy is saying.
But you know, even if we were to remove the
fact that he was probably one of the greatest lion
studs in the world and his and his motivation was
to have sex with Amber, there's so much more to
(39:58):
the story. And and you know, again it is a
simple thing. You have to judge based on the entire
story and not just part of it. Was Scott Peterson
it you know, there are a chain of events. And
Garago spoke about behavior. Well, yeah, you know, I don't
(40:21):
care what the crime is, I don't care what the
trial's about. It will always come down to behavior and
what is the norm or what we expect from people. Now,
you take that and and and don't necessarily bias your
opinion on some things but take a look at the
entire story, the entire event from yes, I was hoping
(40:48):
for infertility, I didn't want children is what he was saying,
uh to you know, is his affair with Amber Fry,
his his behavior. You know, we was just indicated when
he said he was in Paris and his wife is missing.
What is reasonable? You know, when he's in the room
(41:12):
being questioned by I believe it was you Al BROKINI
and his phone rings and he picks it up. It's
his sister in law and he very casually talks to her.
And for the normal human being, if normal is really
something that exists, would you not be a little concerned about, Hey.
Speaker 6 (41:33):
What's going on?
Speaker 10 (41:34):
Is you know she?
Speaker 12 (41:37):
Would you?
Speaker 5 (41:38):
No?
Speaker 4 (41:39):
He just he just kind of blows it off and
very casual about everything. You know, it just makes no sense.
And if it doesn't make sense, there's gotta be more.
Speaker 8 (41:54):
To the to the issue.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
You are hearing Mike Abela Sieri speaking during number four
ndy Scott Peterson trial.
Speaker 6 (42:02):
Yes, it ain't over yet. Nancy Grace signing
Speaker 10 (42:07):
Off, good night,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Scott Peterson shock claim that
his unborn son, his unborn baby boy, Connor's body, proves
he's innocent, that he did not murder Lacy Peterson and
(00:24):
their unborn child Connor. Really, good evening, I'm Nancy Grace.
This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, my father love call, He went, saying, well, morning,
my daughter has been lifting this morning. Eight months pregnanty
took her dog for a walk full of heart from here.
God came home with the belief shock dog came back
forgot you got it?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Peter Peter pry White.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Portuguesay, she's twenty six.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Then come back that we don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
We've just got a call from our son in law
that he left at twenty at nine, the play off
at home about a half hour ago, nowhere around way
walked it in here and that's part.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
He said.
Speaker 6 (01:29):
Pardon eight months pregnant? Did it ever strike you?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Joining me in All Star panel, But there are three
guests that everybody wants to talk to no offense to
the other guests joining us is Jero number four, and
I guess we can reveal his name now. Mike Belmacieri
joining us also with me. Al Brakini, detective on the case.
(01:57):
That name is dedicated to memory Forever and also tattooed
on my brain.
Speaker 6 (02:02):
John Buehller, another.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Detective on the Scott Peterson case. I mean, let me
just start with you, John, did this strike you at
the very beginning? Why isn't her husband calling nine to
one one?
Speaker 7 (02:14):
Well, yeah, there were a lot of things that struck
us with him. His behavior was very unusual from the start,
and even when Al was dealing with him, there were
a lot of things that came up that we just
don't see that often when we're dealing with people that
are suffering.
Speaker 8 (02:26):
A loss like this.
Speaker 7 (02:27):
Even though he didn't know she was well, he knew
she was dead, but nobody else.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Did you say something like that, John Bueller? You can't
just drop a bomb and then not put out the fire.
What thing struck you right off the bat?
Speaker 7 (02:39):
Well, when you know this, Nancy and most of your
viewers do too. When people have an emergency like this
in the family and somebody loved is missing and they
just they're frantic, They're just all over the place. They
got one hundred questions for us. They're constantly bugging us
about why aren't you doing this, Why aren't you doing that?
We only have so many resources available, and we're trying
to answer their questions and knew the job at the
(03:01):
same time. But the only one of all these people,
whether it was Lacey's friends or family or any associates,
the only one who wasn't frantic about this the whole
time was Scott And that is unusual. We've seen it before.
Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but it's just one more
piece of circumstantial evidence that convinced us that he did it.
Putting the case together, and then obviously it can you
(03:21):
can convinced Mike and the other juris or the other
jury members that he had done it.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, I'll tell you one thing you told me about
Bueller that I didn't know, and I thought I knew
every fact of the case, was that once Lacey and
Connor's bodies had washed up on the shore, her in
horrible decomposition, and baby Connor like a pristine little baby doll,
(03:46):
like one of those plastic little baby dolls you get
at the Dollar Tree.
Speaker 6 (03:52):
He was in perfect shape. You tell Peterson, we just
got the DNA back. The body is Lacey, And what
did he say? Within minutes, I'll.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Take a double double with cheese fry and a vanilla
milkshake at the in and out.
Speaker 6 (04:10):
Within minutes he wanted a double double.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
You know what when I was told my fiance was killed,
and at that moment, I didn't know it had been
a murder.
Speaker 6 (04:19):
I thought there was a car crash. I don't think
I ate again for I don't even know how long
I lost out to eighty nine pounds.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I remember the first thing I consumed, it was some
orange juice. I don't know how much longer.
Speaker 6 (04:31):
After that, but he was happy to get a double double.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Within minutes of learning that dead body, those horribly decomposed
remains were Lacey. Alborhini joining me a name that many
people have only read about or heard about. ALBERKINI leading,
along with Bueller, the investigation into Lacey and Connor's disappearance.
Al did it ever strike you right at the get go?
(04:55):
Why is it Peterson calling nine one one.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
I don't know if that struck me as much as
some of the other things, but I mean, he he
was out. His father in law told him go check
the neighbors. He did what he was told. He forgot
what he was doing. I mean, he first neighbor thought
he was golfing when he was fishing. But that didn't
strike me. But what did strike me was he wouldn't
(05:18):
take a polygraph. He said he would on that night,
on the December twenty fourth, and he refused on the
twenty fifth, and then he made us get a search
warrant to search his house on the December twenty sixth,
search his phone, search his computer. And it was all
I told him, It's like, we want to just check
and see if maybe she had a place, he had
(05:38):
a stalker, maybe she had a boyfriend you don't know about.
Maybe there was some strange things in the house that
we couldn't look for. On the twenty fourth and he won,
you know, he made us get a warrant, and so
that was and he refused the polly. So those were
some red flags right in the beginning. Still didn't push
me over the edge thinking that she was dead or
(05:59):
that he did it. But those were besides coming straight
home from fishing and taking the dirty clothes out of
the washer and washing his own clothes, just his clothes.
I mean, those were all red flags.
Speaker 6 (06:12):
Too, just his clothes.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Okay, that's a whole other can of worms right there,
that he sullenly turned neat Nick and only wanted to
wash his clothes.
Speaker 9 (06:22):
See.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
I knew he did laundry, but I didn't remember he
only washed his own clothes.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Mike, Bill Mascieri joining US Jero number four, former chief
of staff with the Marine Corps.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
I remember injury selection. I wanted you because chief of staff,
Marine Corps. Okay, they don't play all right, Mike? Did
it strike you right at the get.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Go when you're sitting there listening to that nine to
one one call and you think where was he?
Speaker 6 (06:52):
Why didn't he call the moment he realized his wife
was missing?
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Well, Nancy, For myself, I like to listen to everything
and finish the story and make a decision. My feeling was,
I wasn't there. I didn't know what was going on,
But it was strange, but not so strange that I
would think he was doing anything that wasn't right, so
(07:18):
to speak. I could have been out looking, could have
been doing a lot of things. Ron Grantsky made the call.
It was important to get to get somebody on the
street to start looking for and that's what was important.
Speaker 10 (07:34):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
You know with Scott Peterson, it's not one thing, it's
all the things. You just you just can't pick at
point to one in my in my opinion, which with
a buck, I couldn't buy a cup of coffee. But
you know you can't say, Okay, this is what happens. Oh,
(07:55):
this makes it guilty. No, you have to take a
look at the entire picture and you have to put
it all together. And the only way you can do
that and do it right is in the man in
which we did it during deliberations without any outside influences.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Mike Bell Mescieri, j'reror number four in the Scott Peterson trial.
Speaker 6 (08:19):
I'm so glad you said what you just said, because
if you had said.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Anything else, defense Attorney Troy Slayton would have had a
field day that you made up.
Speaker 6 (08:29):
Your mind the moment you heard the nine one one call.
But that's not what he said, is it, Slayton?
Speaker 11 (08:35):
That's not what he said. But you also didn't ask
him if his opinion would change now if he heard
new information, and there is new information that is dropping
just recently in this twenty year old case.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Nancy straight out to renowned death investigator, Professor forensics Jacksonville
State University.
Speaker 6 (08:56):
And author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
The star of a Hitting You podcast series, Body Bags
with Josephcott Morgan Joe Scott, thank you for.
Speaker 6 (09:05):
Being with us.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
What is Garag's claiming now using baby Connor's body as
some type of exculpatory evidence.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
What?
Speaker 12 (09:15):
Yeah, hey, look, you can't have it both ways. Remember
what the defense team also said. They said that whoever
these people were that were responsible for Lacey's death, they
actually cut his body out of herbs. Remember that, That's
what they argued. You can't have it both ways. So
the body is intact to a great degree. Remember they
(09:39):
were talking about you'd mentioned right from the top, Nancy,
that Connor's remains were I'm not wordying about that were
not necessarily pristine, but compared to Lacey's body, so that
leads us to believe that the body was in fact protected.
What I'm saying here is you can't have it both ways.
You can't say that some unknown phanom out there fantoms
(10:00):
took a knife and removed this baby's precious body from
mama's body and disposed of them individually into debate. It
doesn't make sense. So now they want to backtrack and
say that well, gestationally from the age perspective, that the
numbers all wrong. The initial study that this expert that
(10:21):
the prosecution called those numbers were based on actual nineteen
seventy studies from I can't remember the exact year, but
jump forward.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
There have been published. In nineteen eighty four the study
was published, and that study was what the expert at
trial relied upon to date to age the fetus Connor.
Speaker 12 (10:48):
Yeah, and so one of the things that happens, just
so everybody knows this, this is how we do this,
all right, It's very simple. When we have a fetus,
we're going to measure gestational I would be very curious
if this individual that was the expert actually physically held
his remains, held Connor's remains and did the examine like
(11:09):
they did in the morgue. The data that we get
from the morgue is based in these areas. We do
what's called a crown rump measurement, we do a crown
heel measurement, we do head circumference. There's a couple other things,
but one of the most important things is that we
look at what will refer to as the gyri and
the sulside, the kind of wavy little lines in the brain,
(11:30):
and we get a baseline off of that for age.
At twenty weeks you begin to get gyri, which are
these kind of bumps on the brain. Before that, the
brain is smooth. So we start off at that level
just to try to understand where they are gestationally. The
problem is is that they're pinning this to just a
couple of days. There's no way, there's no way you
(11:53):
can tie it down this closely scientifically.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, let me go to the
three experts who were there during the trial and actually
weighed the evidence. First of all, to Brukinnie, you know what,
if all of that went over anybody's head, mine or
(12:22):
a gerrar's.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
Head, you can go back, fall back on common sense.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
The defense is now arguing in another push to have
Scott Peterson walk free. They are now saying baby Connor's
body proves that Lacey died after the twenty fourth, such
as as late as January the fifth, and therefore, since
(12:48):
Peterson was under a microscope at that point, he's not
the killer. That's the significance of Connor's body. Okay, Bueller,
common sense. Lacy's body was extremely decomposed, Okay.
Speaker 6 (13:02):
Connor's was not. What does that prove?
Speaker 1 (13:06):
The medical examiner at the time said that Lacey's body
decomposed in the water of San Francisco Bay.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
One of the.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Last muscles to decompose, the thickest muscle, is the uterus.
To protect the baby, she was already in great decomposition,
and finally her uterus decomposed later than the rest of
her body. The uterus came apart, it disintegrated, and baby
(13:33):
Connor came out. That's why he was protected from the elements,
and she was not fast forward right now, since Lacey
was so decomposed and Connor was so pristine in comparison,
that shoots their theory to hell and back.
Speaker 7 (13:55):
Well, I think it does. Yeah, I think it does.
But you know, this is one of those things they're
just trying to throw things against the world to see
what's going to stick. But the only problem is is
you're just going to have a battle of experts here,
and it's going to be up to whoever reviews this
information to decide who's right on that. But to me,
it's not an exacting science. I'm not a scientist or
anything like that, not a biologist, but to me, it's
(14:15):
just not an exacting science where you can pin it
down to.
Speaker 10 (14:18):
That many days.
Speaker 7 (14:18):
But if they do, that's going to poke holes in
their burglary theory and the things that go along with that.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
And why let me throw this to al BROKINI.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Why would this new theory that Peterson has come up
with As he's twiddling his thumbs, he's probably having a
glass of Bruno behind bars right now, Brickhini, How would
this new theory they've come up with ruin his burglary theory?
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Well, I can tell you one thing. If they think
she was alive till the from the twenty eighth to
the January fifth in Modesto and being hidden somewhere, whether
there's a five hundred thousand dollars reward out for information
for her return, that's crazy. There's nobody in Modesto. Those
burglars especially, he could buy them off for about fifty
(15:04):
bucks five hundred thousand dollars. Somebody is going to talk.
She was gone by then the twenty fourth. She was
not in Modesto no more. She was on her way
to Berkeley, And that's all I can say about that.
Speaker 6 (15:20):
So, Mike, you're number four, Mike Bellmacieri.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Does anybody really believe that a bunch of men, typically
men in white suits, hauled around a microscope, can tell
a female juror the exact day of gestational age, because
you know what, my children were born six weeks early. Okay,
(15:48):
so I don't buy any of that, But what I
do buy is the condition of the bodies. Are they
trying to argue Lacy was kept alive for all those
days and then sliced open to get Connor. But then
they decided, oh yeah, we don't want the baby anymore.
Now that we've kidnapped her and taken the baby out
of her, we're just gonna throw them in San Francisco Bay.
(16:10):
That doesn't even make sense.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Mike Nancy. You hit on an interesting point, common sense,
but we have to realize common sense is not common.
Number one, Number two Gargos. Garagos put on an expert
witness called doctor March. That's his definition of expertise. We
(16:33):
all know how that went. Also, you know, Garagos reaches
for a lot of straws. He on one interview, and
I believe al BROKINI was present with a great bartas
he suggested during intimidation, during deliberations. Well, he wasn't in
(16:53):
the room.
Speaker 13 (16:53):
I was.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
That's a lie. Regarding the issue of where the bodies
were found. I suppose there's some science now that says
that he couldn't have done it because they were dumped
in a different area. If we all go back to
the night or the day prior to the remains being discovered,
(17:19):
there was a terrible storm, and so you can't you
know when you have storms. And I've spent a lot
of time on the bay, and you know, things change,
and so.
Speaker 10 (17:32):
You know, I don't you know.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
And as far as the science, we're talking about days,
and I don't think that we've come to a point
in our lives where science is so exact that we
could say this is this is the absolute this with
a botny question is when Connor was what was killed?
Speaker 10 (17:53):
So to speak?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
And of course, you know, things in twenty one years,
it's been almost since we issued that verdict, things have changed.
But I don't believe that we're so arrogant to think
that we're so good at things, and we aren't we
you know, somebody once told me, there's no absolutes. Well,
I'll give you an absolute I'm absolutely convinced that Scott
(18:18):
Peterson is guilty of murdering his wife. And I'm born child.
And when the La Innocence Project called me, that's exactly
what I told them, and they want so, well, we're
gonna listen.
Speaker 10 (18:31):
I go again.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
I'll listen to anything you have to say. I'm a
reasonable man, but you know, don't peel on my leg
and tell me it's.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Raining convicted double killer Scott Peterson trying every trick in
the book to walk free. Does he have a chance
thanks to the LA Innocence Project.
Speaker 6 (18:50):
Well, listen to this.
Speaker 14 (18:51):
I was searching for my family. I wanted to search,
to continue stay in contact with Ambry Thotty, and she
would get into the picture of complicated ruin the search
for what.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Okay, that's Scott Peterson in Peacock's face to face with
Scott Peterson explaining why he kept leading Amber Fry, his mistress,
on after Lacy and Connor went missing, well after he
killed them, and the community the nation was searching frantically
for them. He says, I was searching for my family. No,
(19:26):
he didn't, and I wanted to search to continue. No,
he didn't, and I stayed in touch. I stayed in
contact with Amber so she wouldn't get into the picture
and complicate it and ruin the search.
Speaker 6 (19:40):
Have you ever heard a.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Bigger load technical legal term of BS in your life?
Let me just throw that out to BRAKINI ever heard
a bigger load of stinking's, smoking, steaming BS.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
I've never heard a bigger load. And for him to
predict to Amber three weeks before she was missing that
he lost his wife just to keep her, you know,
he predicted it. He predicted that he's going to lose
his wife three weeks before. So I don't know what
(20:20):
he's talking about, saying he was keeping her in there.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, I remember he said it would be his first
Christmas without Lacey.
Speaker 6 (20:27):
Boo who Okay, Now there is another.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Claim in addition to baby Connor's fetus proves he's innocent.
Now there's another claim advanced by the la ip La
inn Project.
Speaker 6 (20:42):
Listen.
Speaker 13 (20:42):
Defense attorneys also want to present an analysis by a
forensic document examiner who claims it's Lacy Peterson's handwriting and
notes on the cost of anchors, indicating Scott Peterson did
not buy his vote in secret as part of a
plan to kill his wife. Finally, the lawyer say, a
Ponscha owner will testify that he was contacted by the
police about a Croton watch pawned by an associate of
(21:06):
one of the Medina burglars on December thirty first, just
seven days after Lisey was reported missing. On the stand,
investigators testified they never located Lisey's Croton watch.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Well, there go the police lying again in the Scott
Peterson case.
Speaker 6 (21:20):
It's all your fault. I hope you know it. I
hope you know that. By the time this is over,
they're going.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
To claim Burkini and Bueller did it. Okay, Bueller, let's
throw this to you. What did you get up on
the stand and lie about the Croton watch? On the
face of it, right there, I see that it's entirely consistent.
They say that a pawn shop owner states police came
to investigate the watch that was similar to Lacey's. Not Lacey's,
(21:48):
but similar, and investigators on the stand state they never
located the watch.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
I don't see what's he inconsistent about that?
Speaker 7 (21:56):
Yeah, I don't either, because my recall on that as
George Stower was the detective was working the burglary along
with several others, and not only were they able not
to find the Croton watch, they weren't able to show
that any of the property that was associated with the
Peterson's was ever recovered from the burglars. The burglar surrendered
property from several other burglaries besides the one that was
(22:17):
across the street at the Medina's house, and they did
it almost without being asked, because they were so afraid
that when they went to Stanslot County Jail that they'd
be attacked in there because of the victim in this case.
And so when it comes to the burglary, it was
thoroughly investigated by those guys, and they even polygrabed both
of the burglars, and they wanted to parade those results
(22:39):
around to the other inmates in the jail to show
that they didn't have anything to do with this. But
like al had said earlier in the broadcast, anybody who
was involved in this on the burglary side for five
hundred thousand dollars to return Lacey, they would have been talking.
There's no way that they would have kept a secret
if they were. Yeah, they were pollied, and they cleared.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
They did, and they immediately So glad you reported that
that's always been a murky, question worthy burglar's polygraphed about
kidnapping Lacey.
Speaker 6 (23:09):
And let me throw this to brukkini Al. The defense
is now claiming, in a bid to.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Get Peterson free, that Lacy Peterson really knew about the
secret boat that I contend was used to transport her
body to the San Francisco Bay and dump her because
of handwritten notes in her handwriting about the cost of
the anchors, they say, proof she knew all about the boat.
Speaker 6 (23:35):
Is that true?
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Well, there was a handwritten note on the nightstand. I
can't say who wrote it, but Scott told me that
the anchors were too expensive. That's why he made one.
And I talked to the person that sold the boat,
and Scott was the only one there. And the only
proof I have that Lacy knew anything about the boat
(23:56):
was the fact that her hair was found wrapped around
a pair of flyers inside the boat on when we
serve the search one on the twenty six.
Speaker 6 (24:05):
Twined in the needle.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Nos, plyers not just touching them like a touch transfer
of hair, but intertwined in them. Tammy Ballard, crime scene
consultant and Reconstructions, What does it mean to you that
her hair was intertwined in the needle nosed pliers. It
was not a transfer of a hair.
Speaker 9 (24:29):
That tells me that this was some situation where her
hair is probably removed depending on what kind of root
material was present, And very much would expect that to
be something that is a good piece of evidence for
that on.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
And all we hear about the burglary that happened across
the street from Lacy's home. I've been to the neighborhood many,
many times. It's a beautiful little neighborhood. But hear what
Ghiagoes has to say about that.
Speaker 8 (25:07):
The prosecution stood up an opening and said she was
dead on the twenty third. By the end of the
case they had changed that theory because it had been proven.
I think throughout the case that she was alive on
the twenty fourth. That you can have a mountain of
circumstantial evidence, but when you change the date dramatically from
(25:28):
one day to another on a circumstantial murder case, that
alone supplies reasonable doubt.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
That was from our friends.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Harvey Levin at TMZ two angry men with Mark Geragos.
Now this is a significance of the burglary, actually Christill
Lazar joining me Emmy Award winning investigative reporter k cal CBS.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
What is a significance. How is the defense using.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
The burglary across the street to suggest Lacey was taken
in connection with the burglary?
Speaker 6 (26:04):
What are they saying?
Speaker 15 (26:05):
They're trying to come up with a different motive and
say that Lacey saw the burglars, interrupted a burglary or
question them, and then they essentially had to take her
and get rid of her because she was a witness.
But you know, as others have pointed out, there was
so many people looking for Lacy Peterson. There was a
lot of money that was offered as a reward. I
(26:25):
find it hard to believe, having sat through the trial,
that that is a plausible motive and that she wouldn't
have been found alive had it been burglars who took
her and not her own husband.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Specifically, the la Innes's Project is arguing this.
Speaker 16 (26:41):
The attorneys also argue that the break in at the
Medina's across the street from the Petersons and subsequent arson
of the burglars van was not properly investigated as being
tied to Lacey's disappearance. They claimed the Medina burglary occurred
on Christmas Eve, not December twenty sixth as the jury heard.
They also claimed Modesto police intentionally destroyed recordings of the
burglars interviews with details on how and when the burglary
(27:05):
occurred to hide that fact.
Speaker 6 (27:12):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Welcome back to the La Innocence Project insisting Scott Peterson
is innocent, making many four fetched claims and here's another one.
Speaker 17 (27:28):
On the day Scott was convicted, after the ninth day
of deliberation, after removing three of the jurors, the prosecution
handed us a report from the Chino prison with a
lieutenant who had overheard a prisoner talking to his relative
talking about the burglary and talking about Lacey, and the
(27:49):
brother of the relative telling.
Speaker 8 (27:51):
Him to shut up.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
At prison guard overheard Lacey's name on one of the
burglar's phone calls. The prison guard says the burglars started
to discuss Lacey seeing and confront them, but the person
on the line told him to stop talking. The lawyers
claim the eyewitness account is exculpatory because it shows Lacey
was still alive after the Medina's left home around ten
thirty am.
Speaker 14 (28:12):
Yeah, there was a virtuey costas people from home, a
lot of people, and I believe that Lacy went over there.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
It's to see what was going on. Okay, you were
just hearing our friends at Two Angry Men podcast, Harvey
eleven and Mark Girigos and Peacock's face to face with
Scott Peterson hold on straight to al BRAKINI So the
state hands the defense a document that says a lieutenant
(28:47):
within the jail overhears an inmate speaking to a relative.
They hear Lacey's name come up, and then somebody says
stop talking.
Speaker 6 (28:57):
Stop talking. What if anything does that prove Lacy as
it relates to the burglary. That's it.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
Well, that was pretty well investigated after we found out
about it. I mean, they went down and interviewed that lieutenant.
He couldn't find the tapes, couldn't find the log where
there was any names, and eventually he recanted, and that
came up even from the defense attorney said that he
recanted all that. I don't know if he said it
for money or if he said it for reward, but
(29:27):
he recanted. There's no tape, there's no log where anybody
showed where you have to log in that somebody's making
a phone call or he's on the phone. And so
I don't think that holds any water. Does any good
for Scott Peterson?
Speaker 6 (29:43):
Do Jory Crassen joining me?
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Renowned psychologists, faculty Saint Leo University, author of operations, Doctor Jory,
thank you for being with us. This is excruciating to
Lacey's family. Sharon 's husband, Grant Sky Ron Grants Sky
has passed away. Now she's all alone, she has her
(30:06):
son still alive. This reopens the wounds again. I mean
it gets your RS investigators upset to hear these wild claims.
Speaker 6 (30:19):
But what does it do to Lacy's family?
Speaker 10 (30:23):
You know, being a victim yourself to violence, experiencing it,
it retraumatizes and it takes you right back to that
very moment. Okay, even though it's been twenty years, rest
assured myself. Also being a victim of violence resulting in death,
you relive that moment. It takes your way back to
(30:46):
it retraumatizes you, It disrupts your sleep. Then you start
to build like you know what is what if he
does get a new trial, what if he does do this, this,
this all that starts to build out, And that's that's
very difficult to deal with. And you know, it's just
(31:06):
the way our system is built, you know, where he
can challenge these things. But the victims once again are
being revictimized and being retraumatized by this whole new episode
that's developing.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
And how can one strip of a duck tape demand
Scott Peterson be released.
Speaker 18 (31:27):
Peterson's new defense says multiple witnesses tie the orange van
found burned near the Modesto airport to the burglary at
the Medinas's home, and the stained mattress in the back
should have been tested more thoroughly after presumptively testing positive
for blood while testing of a small sample only revealed
a male profile. The Innocence Project argues the entire mattress
(31:48):
should have been tested, despite a judge disagreeing with them
on the same point. Last year, this was brought up.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
To the judge, Christine Lazarge winning US from KCLCBSLA. The
judge said, Okay, the mattress has already been tested.
Speaker 6 (32:04):
That's mail DNA.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
What the defense is claiming is that this van, this
orange van that was burned up shortly after Lacey went missing,
shortly after the burglary, there it is is somehow connected
to the burglary. They've extrapolated that this must be connected.
There was a burned out mattress in the back of
it that was tested. It showed mail DNA. But there
(32:29):
was a piece of duct tape found stuck to Lacey's leg.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
All right, The defense is now arguing.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
The mattress in the back of the van was not
tested enough and they want more testing on that. Why
do they want the duct tape found on Lacey's leg tested?
Speaker 15 (32:49):
Well, look, they're looking for other DNA evidence. They're looking
for a way to link her murder to someone else,
to the burglar's. To me, again, as someone who sat
through the trial, it feels like they're grasping for straws.
But that's what they're doing right now. I will say
here in Los Angeles, in this newsroom, we were all
(33:10):
very surprised when the La Innocence Project took up this case.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Joscott Morgan, What could they possibly want with the piece
of duct tape that was on Lacy's leg.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
After all that time in the water.
Speaker 12 (33:23):
Well. One of the things that we're looking for what
to refer to as plastic prints, that is in the
adhesive on the tape itself, if it's protected in any way,
say that part that's adherent to her leg, Did anybody
touch the adherent side with their bare hand, You can
get a print off that. They would also want to
look for any kind of hair deposition, because it can
(33:45):
catch hair at any moment in tom tape. Can We've
all experienced that over the years, and certainly if if
it was like torn, if you grab it with your teeth,
which you know I've done over the years, tear the tape,
you can do a deposition of saliva on there. So
those are the things that I guess in a perfect
(34:06):
world they'd be hoping for. But we're talking about a
body that was in San Francisco Bay, Nancy, that's a
very harsh environment. I don't know what they would mean nasty, Well, yeah,
I mean, and I'm a fisherman, and there's all kinds
of stuff that collects on all types of items out here.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Now, there's another issue related to this, Troyce s Layton
joining me renowned to la criminal defense attorney troy it
was months ago that the judge ordered further DNA testing
on that piece of duct tape attached to Lacey's leg.
Speaker 6 (34:41):
I think she was still wearing pants attached to that.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
And don't you know, Troyce Layton, the judge said, you
got forty five days to complete the testing it needed
to be testing. That was forty five days from her
July twenty fourth ruling. Don't you know if that duct
tape had revealed anything that exonerated Scott Peterson, they would
(35:06):
have been running back and forth in front of the
courthouse with it waving it he's innocent.
Speaker 6 (35:13):
But we haven't heard a word.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
One of the first times gear Ages has shut his
pie hole ever. Don't you know if that had come
back to exonerate Peterson, we'd all be hearing about it.
Speaker 11 (35:26):
Well, we wouldn't, Nancy, because one of the part's important
parts about the judge's order, where she laid out very
specifically how this private company is to conduct the testing.
She said that any results are to be returned to
the court under seal, which means that nobody's allowed to
talk about it, nobody's allowed to see it, nobody's allowed
(35:47):
to know about it except the court, so there wouldn't
be waving it around in front of the courthouse and
no one would be allowed to talk about it.
Speaker 14 (35:57):
You can and dessemble it for me that you had
lost your wives and now also in your wife's missus.
Speaker 6 (36:05):
Alive, where she's alive media.
Speaker 8 (36:09):
I've been telling everyone that I had come to through disaparent.
Speaker 19 (36:13):
I met Scott Peterson November twentieth, two thousand and two.
I was introduced to him. I was told he was unmarried.
Scott told me he was not married. We did have
a romantic relationship. When I discovered he was involved in
the disappear of the Lacy Peterson disappearance of the case,
(36:35):
I immediately contacted the Modesto police.
Speaker 6 (36:37):
Department amberfer I had no idea Peterson was married.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Hey, Troy Slayton, will you listen to that where she said, uh,
well she's alive and he completely ignored that, didn't answer that.
He's still leading on his mistress. He's still here's another
technical legal phrase, up wants to get a her pants.
Still his wife is missing, and he is still calling
(37:06):
Amber Fry trying to get with her.
Speaker 11 (37:08):
Well that recording, Nancy was at the behest of the
police department. She became an agent of the government by
conducting uh surveillance and surreptitious recordings of Peterson.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
And so yes, have you ever never.
Speaker 6 (37:29):
Have you never?
Speaker 5 (37:31):
Uh?
Speaker 11 (37:33):
Have you ever known someone to lie in order to
have sex? Oh? My goodness? Should that be crazy to everybody?
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah? Actually that I agree with. But not while your
wife an unborn baby are missing. No, I haven't just Peterson.
Speaker 6 (37:50):
You know what, Let's put the icing on the cake.
Listen ever.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
Ever, ever hear me?
Speaker 17 (38:03):
Dear there there.
Speaker 11 (38:10):
Ever?
Speaker 17 (38:12):
Hey, happy their.
Speaker 6 (38:14):
Going to thank you?
Speaker 9 (38:18):
Are right there?
Speaker 5 (38:19):
Yes, I wish you could give me.
Speaker 8 (38:23):
I'm on the eye.
Speaker 19 (38:24):
I think that you're there.
Speaker 17 (38:26):
I'm my year, the I book, our New Year's unreal. God,
it's huge.
Speaker 6 (38:33):
Yeah, the crowd is huge at your wife's vigil. The
crowd is huge.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
There you hear Troy Slayton, Scott Pearson. I remember she
goes missing December twenty four. This is New Year's Eve,
December thirty one, midnight, and he is calling from Lacey's vigil,
calling his mistress, pretending he's ringing the New year in Paris.
(39:02):
Now you seem to argue that Scott Peterson's intent was
not in because police were recording it.
Speaker 6 (39:13):
What does their recording have to do with what's going
on in his pants.
Speaker 11 (39:16):
What I'm saying is a man is lying in order
to try and have sex with this woman. That's what
he's doing. It's very simple, it's very I'm.
Speaker 6 (39:26):
Going to stop there to like.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
To Mike Bell Mascieri, Mike, you're the Gerrard, You're our
number four.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
I'm most then, and I understand what Troy is saying.
But you know, even if we were to remove the
fact that he was probably one of the greatest lion
studs in the world and his and his motivation was
to have sex with Amber, there's so much more to
(39:58):
the story. And and you know, again it is a
simple thing. You have to judge based on the entire
story and not just part of it. Was Scott Peterson
it you know, there are a chain of events. And
Garago spoke about behavior. Well, yeah, you know, I don't
(40:21):
care what the crime is, I don't care what the
trial's about. It will always come down to behavior and
what is the norm or what we expect from people. Now,
you take that and and and don't necessarily bias your
opinion on some things but take a look at the
entire story, the entire event from yes, I was hoping
(40:48):
for infertility, I didn't want children is what he was saying,
uh to you know, is his affair with Amber Fry,
his his behavior. You know, we was just indicated when
he said he was in Paris and his wife is missing.
What is reasonable? You know, when he's in the room
(41:12):
being questioned by I believe it was you Al BROKINI
and his phone rings and he picks it up. It's
his sister in law and he very casually talks to her.
And for the normal human being, if normal is really
something that exists, would you not be a little concerned about, Hey.
Speaker 6 (41:33):
What's going on?
Speaker 10 (41:34):
Is you know she?
Speaker 12 (41:37):
Would you?
Speaker 5 (41:38):
No?
Speaker 4 (41:39):
He just he just kind of blows it off and
very casual about everything. You know, it just makes no sense.
And if it doesn't make sense, there's gotta be more.
Speaker 8 (41:54):
To the to the issue.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
You are hearing Mike Abela Sieri speaking during number four
ndy Scott Peterson trial.
Speaker 6 (42:02):
Yes, it ain't over yet. Nancy Grace signing
Speaker 10 (42:07):
Off, good night,
Host
Nancy Grace
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