March 1, 2023 • 61 mins
In this episode Jill, Laiya, and Aja talk to the Legendary artist Stephanie Mills about her career, and how she feels about the state of the music industry. Catch her on tour this year link below.
https://www.ticketmaster.com/stephanie-mills-tickets/artist/735658
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Jay dot Ill, a production of iHeartRadio. Hi,
welcome to Jay dot Ill the Podcast. This is Jill
Scott and I'm here with my sister friends. Hey, Joe
Graydon Dan's luck. That would be myself and Layah's Saint Claire.
(00:23):
You better talk about it, tell the world about it. Yeah,
today's uh, this conversation that we're having today, I'm having
a little bit of trouble because you know, I don't
I don't know where to begin. Bless see. Well, I
remember being a little girl with my mom and we
got all dressed up and she even I even had
(00:45):
a purse that day, and I don't know how she
managed this, um, but we were on the front row
of a play and um my mom had taken me
to many plays at this point, and you know, I
was I was sighted, and I was told to, you know,
cross my legs because I was sitting in a front seat,
which I did like a little lady. And I even
(01:07):
had perfume at that well, we saw The Whiz and
I remember there were parts that scared me and I
climbed under the chair because I was afraid, and my
mom said, it's okay, it's okay. It's okay. And I
remember sitting back in my chair and watching and I
had my whole body pushed forward and this voice, all
(01:31):
ladies and gentlemen, this voice it was it was just
it was pure and warm and real and honest. And
when she sang home, I'm about to cry. I'm trying
to getting myself together. When she sang home, it was
this feeling of like somebody had poured syrup, warm syrup,
(01:51):
all over our bodies. It was one of the most amazing,
incredible experiences that I've had in a life, in a
whole lifetime. I'm going to continue with some more stories.
Years later, many many years later, I had an album
out and I was doing pretty good, I think, and
(02:12):
there was an artist who had a number one hit
on the radio. And this is this is hearsay. I
don't know if this is true or not, but I'm
gonna go ahead and tell this story. Well, anyway, there
was this this artist that had a number one hit
on the radio. It was everywhere was great for them,
and they were doing a show with this woman that
(02:33):
I'm going to introduce you to. Okay, anyway, so the
artist was upset that they had to go before the
woman that we're about to speak to now, and made
a big stink about it, made such a stink to
the promoters and such they said fine, you know, I
mean didn't say fine. But actually the artist that is
(02:54):
here with us today she heard because people in the
band were overhearing, you know, the foolishness I want. I
don't understand. I got a number one hit. So the
band went back and told this lovely artist that I'm
with and she said, go ahead, let them close. Well, honey,
(03:16):
I was not there, okay, so take this with with
the you know, a spoonful of not even a spoon,
take it with a grain of salt, because I was
not there. But from what I understand from the musicians
that were there and the artist members that were there,
that Miss Stephanie Mills got on stage and proceeded to
(03:38):
tear the bricks out of the building one by one.
Don't buy one, understand dub And she hadn't even sung
home yet. Okay, Oh they be Afterwards, after the crowd
(04:02):
hads cried and sung and danced and hugged each other
and cheered Miss Stephanie Mills on. They were exhausted because
she left no crumbs, not a single one. Everybody was full, okay.
And then the artist that made such a stink went
(04:24):
on after her and sang the one song that they
had that was the hit. And that's all you can
really say is blessed, bless their heart, ladies and gentlemen.
It is are great and deep honor and pleasure to
(04:44):
say hello to miss Stephanie Mills. SI you guys, and
you know that is a true story. It's sad, but
it's true. But later years, that same artist, like maybe
last two years ago, sent me a letter and apologized
(05:04):
for that. And and that was that bb Kings. Yeah,
was that bb Kings. I don't want to say the
artist name because I'm not into that, but that was
that was a true story. She wouldn't even take a
picture with me. We won't want to take picture. She
wouldn't take a picture with me or anything. And I
was like, okay, this, I can go on. First even now,
(05:27):
I have no problem. First, second, whatever, I'm going to
go on and enjoy myself because I really love to
perform and sing. So even now and even now, there's
some artists out there that are mean, you know, and
they are of my age and of my error and
they're still mean and I don't know why, but I
(05:47):
just like to enjoy and I like to lift us up.
I'm unapologetically black. Yes you were, I say black, Andy, Black,
black up in here. As as a general rule, welcome home,
Thank you, thank you. We love you for it. We do.
(06:13):
You're just the tiny pocket of fantastic and brilliant vocals.
My goodness. Wow wow wow wow. Okay. We need that
kind of we need you know, that kind of leadership
and an energy at all times amongst us, those of
(06:33):
us who are strong in who we are and in
and in our craft. Yes, because all don't decide to
do both right. Some decide to just be strong in
the craft, which is fine, But others who decide to
be strong in the craft, but then also be strong
in their word and what they say, in their identity
(06:54):
and who they are and repping for us as a
community and a culture. That's very important to me, because
there's a lot of scared negroes out there, and I
don't know why in twenty twenty three were still afraid.
You know, I've been told so many times, oh, you're
going to be blacklisted, or you're gonna be this if
you do that. You know, when I took off to
(07:14):
have my son in five years, I was home with
him coming home because I wanted to be home with
my son when he came home to school. Oh that's
a death, that's suicide. I've had people tell me, oh,
dark girls are not popular anymore and you should learn
how to sing jazz and to that, you know, I
just listen and I'm like, you have your opinion, but
(07:35):
God has a whole another opinion. And That's how I've
always lived my life. I've always you know, I've always
been told I was to this, too black, to this,
too short, not pretty enough, and I never bought into that.
I always stayed in my lane, did what I wanted
to do, and I never wanted to be well. I
am pop because I am popular, just like Jill, it's pop,
(08:00):
she's popular, So what is pop? You know, I've always
said we're popular, We already pop. You know, it's just
what they choose to put their machine behind. And I've
had that machine behind me early in my career, and
I understood what it meant and what it didn't mean.
But I chose to be who I am, and I
(08:23):
liked what I was doing, so I didn't want to.
I didn't want to have to sell my soul to
be a certain to get at a certain level. And
I don't like when people say, oh, you should be
at this level? What level you're already at a level?
What level is that? I never understood that when people
say sell your soul, what does that mean to you?
(08:46):
That means that you have done or will do just
about anything to be in a circle of people that
you don't need to be in. All the people that
I know that have been encircles what they thought was
better or that would further their career is dead. M
(09:09):
they are dead. Um why do we I don't. I
never understood why we see artists, our black artists, or
you see the example of what not to do, and
then you continue to go down that same time. I never,
I never understood it. And I never understand why we
(09:29):
think vanilla ice cream is colder than chocolate. I never,
I never understood that. And I don't know if it's
what we think. What do you think it is? Like
you said, um, some artists are pushed, some content is pushed,
and that is to keep us not loving each other, yes,
(09:54):
not being kind to one another, not listening to one another, separating.
It's the said whole, you know, Willie Lynch thing still
absolutely absolutely However, you know, people argue about if that's
true or not, but it appears to be true to
me because it's continuing separate the light from the dark,
the young from the old, separate the families from their children,
(10:18):
you know, just separation. And it's it appears that this
is what this particular society enjoys. They prefer us that way.
You said something I won't pretend to quote you, but
I thought it was absolutely the truth you said. It
was something along the lines of, um, they want our music,
(10:39):
just not from us, Yes, they want R and B,
but not from me or you. They wanted from Justin
Timberlake or Adell or Molly Cyrus. So you know there's
still you know, like, how can you name Justin Timberlake
the R and B king? What is that? Who did that? Nobody?
You know? Is so offensive? It's very offensive. I find
(11:02):
it offensive. But it's what it is, you know. It's like,
it's what it is. You don't expect anything different. But
if like uh Tyweese that song Shane, that was incredible
and Justin Timberlake sang that song. Yes'll be hearing it
right now, right right, it would have he would want
(11:25):
all kind of Grammys, all kinds of this. It's the
same thing, and it's really sad. Yeah, because we followed it.
We followed the same model. When we become we do
the same thing. I would saying with somebody the other
day they were like, why do you why do some
people feel like they need a white figurehead to do things?
I was like, no, shase definitely, But I was like,
it's a very boomer mentality. But it's not their fault,
(11:45):
right right, It's not their fault because that's what they
had to do. So now we're stopping it, but we
need to continue to tell the story of why we
did it and why it wasn't their fault. But you
know it's it's yeah. I mean, we have a business
that doesn't like to update its modality. It fights every
time our business has to shift or change, it fights
it tooth and nail. Yes, And I don't know if
(12:07):
that's like that with every other industry, but this industry
is very married to the way that it does things,
and so people just don't want to shift or change.
More real talk after the break. You mentioned the machine.
(12:35):
I really want you to speak to some of the
younger artists. I think the machine is very It's attractive
because it helps to get things done that they think
they need to get done. What are some of the
things that they need to really think about if they're
going to engage with the machine. How do you maintain
and still end up a Stephanie Mills having the mentality
(12:58):
that you have after interacting with that. Stay true to yourself,
you know, know how, just like they know how to
deal with us, you have to know and learn how
to deal with them and get what we need from
them in just that space. But keep your surroundings small
(13:19):
and keep people that you can trust. You can't trust everybody,
and sometimes even the people that you have around you
will sell you out. So you have to give what
you can give. But keep the best part of yourself
or yourself yourself. Don't teach everybody everything you know. Oh,
(13:41):
I always say you can give. You could give a lot,
but definitely keep keep the most important parts for yourselves.
You have to you have to and just navigate, navigate
through it. That's not what they do because they they
throw us away when they're finished making money off of us,
and then there's an you flavor, you know what I'm saying.
(14:03):
So as soon as they make money, I mean, they'll
cancel us just like nothing. It's nothing to them, We
mean nothing to them. We are dollar cents, we are dollars.
And I mean, look how they made the rap game
R and B? What what is that? For a long
(14:23):
time took the R and B category of off television.
I think it still is. It still is because it
doesn't matter to them. And why we don't see that,
Why we don't address that. The ones that have that
kind of power, the ones that have elevated to that
kind of power, why don't they adjust that? They don't
(14:44):
because they're afraid to be canceled. Yeah, I absolutely believe
that we need a whole other thing. We need We
need other shows, We need other support, We need other
outlets we do that that really celebrate excellence. But here's
the thing we have. We have some other shows, right
(15:04):
like we have Image Awards, we now have De Grio.
The question is the way that certain shows legitimize you
as an artist. You can have a fifty dozen black things,
but if this is this, this one is the king,
and you keep making it the king, and you make
it the king, right, you pay your money. And the
thing is, the king don't pay you. The king doesn't
(15:26):
give you anything. You pay the king to sit in
the king's court. And this is this is this is
when we don't elevate. Like I said, if you're using
the same model and you slap a black face on it,
it's not different. This is the problem though, that a
lot of people don't know a lot of the black
shows are written by white writers. A lot of them. Yes, yes, yes,
(15:51):
they put a black director or a black producer in
front of it to make you think it's black. And
they did. That's why I thought that, because Jesse p did.
It's not it's not. Then these these black shows have
a white producer that's telling them what they can and
cannot do. That's the problem. And then you have your
(16:12):
beets who sold to to what Amazon? You think they
care about us? I think Barry Gordy should have held
on to motown. We sell our things out and whites
hold on to theirs. That's power, that's wealth, you know
what I'm saying. It's like we should Bob Johnson should
(16:34):
have never sold b et why white people hold on
to their things. We got to learn to hold on
to ours and pass it down to our children. I
saw an interview recently with Byron Allen shout out to him.
He said he was in the in the room when
Barry Gordy sold Motown, and he said all he could
do with crying. I'm just grown in in the suit
(16:57):
handling business, just sobbing like a baby. You know. I
probably added more to that. Yeah, it's like, how much
more money do you really need? Is that's so powerful?
We should still own Motel and I think I agree
it's been revitalized. I also think if we're going to
have these companies, we also need to be more ethical
(17:18):
about our practices. Yes, if we are, we have to
step up and be better than what we've been taught
to be from these other, you know examples. If we're
going to be exploitative too to our own people, then
what does that say? So a lot of times it's
for me, it's it's it's and in both we should
be an ownership of our own things, but we should
(17:39):
be operating at a level that far exceeds the ethical
or the moral compass or whatever you want to call it.
You know that these I mean a completely different model, Yes,
completely different, because you know me personally, I'm not happy
with a black man owning my masters, no more than
I'm happy with a white man owning master absolutely. Um
(18:03):
huh wow. And where do we start? Well, I love it. This,
this is tea baby. And where do we start? I'm
into it. Listen, it's gonna be quiet because this is
what you do. This is this is what you do,
ladies and gentlemen of however old you are, when you
are in a space with someone who has far more
experience than you, who has seen and felt things that
(18:26):
you you couldn't even put into words. When you're in
that space, you get quiet. Okay. So this is one
of those times that I'm just so pleased to be
able to speak to you. We all are, which is
so pleased and excited. What are you excited about? I'm
(18:49):
excited about us. I love us and I will for
My mother was a very strong, strong woman and had
a business in Brooklyn. I'm from Brooklyn, New York, grew
up in bed Stot. My mother was an activist and
didn't even know it, you know, she was always like cookie,
(19:11):
don't have a look back. That's what my family called me, cookie.
Don't ever look back. If you can't be the corn,
don't be the cob. You know. It's it's those things
that she taught me when I was a little girl.
I now so understand. You know, she told me not
to trust. You know, she's from the South, so she
didn't trust a lot of white She didn't trust even
(19:35):
some of the blacks that was there. But she definitely
taught me to pay attention to what was going on.
And when you're growing up, you're like, oh, mom, I
don't want to do that. But now that I as
I gotten older, I really realized what she was telling me,
and I apply that to my life, my every day life.
I'm excited just about living, and now that I have
(19:59):
at sixty, going to be sixty six, I have joy
and I have peace. I didn't allow this business to
ruin me. I never was about the business. I love
to sing and I love to do it, but I
was never about the fake shit, you know, going to
the parties and having to be done up one hundred
percent all the time. I wasn't Stephanie Mills all the time.
(20:22):
That's deadly. You cannot be yourself. It's deadly. I mean,
you have to go to the post office, So I
go to the grocery store. You know, I have a
normal life because that shit fades away. You're riding a
limousine every day, and what if you lose all your stuff?
Didn't what happens? You're like crazy. And I know an
(20:43):
artist in particular, I won't mention the name that did
not know how to function, couldn't do anything on her own,
and she's not with us anymore. But I always wanted
to drive myself. I didn't get caught up in old
Miss Mills, old NA because I know who I am,
(21:04):
I know where I came from. I came from Brooklyn.
My mother was like, you still have to wash those dishes,
You still have to clean your room. Yeah, a lot
of stuff is it's fake. Even when I was doing
the whiz at uh at nineteen, my mother still made
me do chores, you know. And I just think you
have to keep it real. Don't get caught up in
(21:26):
the Oh your star what stars are in the sky?
Sound like Jill in the sky? Let me tell you.
So it's like you sing and you and and I
appreciate my fans, so so so much as when everybody
canceled me in the industry, I was able to I
(21:50):
was still I was because I missed it. I'm like,
I'm telling you, I still was able to do my
shows and sell out my shows. When was that, well,
you mean years years ago. But even now, you know,
I was never the popular one. I was never like
(22:11):
I was never like the popular one because I wasn't
willing to do like when I lived in Los Angeles,
because I lived in Los Angeles for nine years and
I would go to auditions, which I hate auditioning. They
would always make you feel so small. And so I
called my mom one day and I was like, I
just don't want an audition. I was crying. I was like,
(22:32):
I can't do it. They just look at you like
you're crazy. But she said, don't do it. She said,
only do what people offer you. She said go where
you're celebrated, not tolerated. And I never forgot that, and
that's what I teach my son, and Honey, he thinks
he's the king of the world. You can He's like,
I go with celebrated, not tolerated. And that's what I did.
(22:56):
And that was after the Wiz you're talking about her.
That was because I didn't want to for The Whiz.
I went to the Wiz audition chrime because I had
gone up for so many things and didn't get them,
so I was like, I don't want to go. My
mother took me and I sang for them, and then
they called me back and after three auditions, I got
the roles as Dorothy. That's the one. Yes, that was
(23:18):
the safe. That was where they wanted you. Okay, do
you do you remember how much you got paid on Broadway.
I got paid fifteen hundred dollars a week plus perdem
plus perdem. That's pretty good, right for the time. I
mean fifteen ten thousand dollars to day or ten thousand
(23:38):
dollars a week. Yeah, that I got paid fifteen hundred dollars. Yep,
I remember that. That was such a glorious time to
be around all of that, and Charlie Smalls and Ken Harper,
Oh my god, yes. Oh. And love when you say
his name? You know, I love when you say his name, right,
Ted Ross? Ted Ross, Yeah, Ross was amazing. He won
(24:05):
a Tony for the show. The Whiz won seven Tony's Yes,
and we won for best musical Dedi Bridgewater one for
Glinda ted Ross one. But it was just. But they
did not want us on Broadway, no, honey. They gave
us the worst reviews ever. But my mother belonged to
a church, Cornerstone Baptist Church in Brooklyn, and Ken Harper's
(24:28):
mother belonged to a huge church, and they brought churchloads
of buses to our show. And then once we did
the commercial, then it opened up and the Whiz was
but even still the way the Whiz closed, they weren't
gracious to us. Yeah, we remever hear their story. No,
they weren't gracious. They moved us. We were at the
(24:49):
Majestic Theater and they moved us to the Broadway Theater,
which was a bigger theater. Well, we had been on
Broadway for five years. So what they did was they
moved us where we would fail and the and the
Wiz didn't do the business at the Broadway Theater that
it did at the Majestic. They should have never moved us.
But they didn't want us there anymore. M hm. And
(25:13):
Broadway is truly the Great White Way. They don't want us,
They do not want us there at all time. We
had racing in the sun. We had Bubbling Brown Show.
There was nothing but black shows on Broadway. When the
whisticated ladies, sophisticated ladies shot George to his name, his name, brilliant, brilliant.
(25:45):
There will never be a choreographer that did the Wiz
storm like George Faison did. They're bringing uh the Wiz
back to Broadway, but I don't care what they do.
If it ain't gonna be the exact thing, it ain't
never gonna be right. Makes zero sense to me because
I know when when I was doing Rent, if I
(26:06):
did anything different, I got a note. Yes, you're supposed
to uphold the writer's concept. You are not supposed to
budge or move. Once it's solidified, it is done, and
you do anything off, of course you're gonna get fired. Yea.
But you know what, it seems like there is a
bit of an obsession with a reconstant reworking of the Whiz,
(26:31):
the not upholding of the you know, of the original. Yeah,
and I don't feel like it's all the way bad,
but I'm just I mean not, I don't think it's bad.
I just think it's just interesting how it is something
culturally that we want to continue to reimagine exactly rather
than uphold the original in that way, you know what
(26:54):
I'm saying. Where they uphold Hello Dolly, they have a
whole funny girl. They uphold Chicago Fago. You know nothing
about why do we have to change something that wons
seven Tony Awards. And Stephanie, you mentioned something very important
you mentioned when you were talking about George Faison and
(27:14):
the wind scene. People don't understand that this woman right
here that is the wind exactly with If you don't
see that, you have no reference of, like what the
symbol that you see when you see the original Wiz meetings.
It's gonna be very interesting to see what they do
to the Wiz, and if they do something that is
(27:37):
not good, I'm definitely going to speak out about it. Yes, yeah,
I want to shout out George Paison also because George
Faison also did so much work with so many R
and B artists, in particular Yes Earth went in Fire
and and also with Ashford and Simpson. And I remember
(27:58):
when we met with George and we were working on
a project with him at one point, and George Faizon
got us together. I just need you to I just
put that. He got my husband, Yes, he got me
and my husband together on stage. He came out to
see our show and he was just like, we need
to talk, and yes, we need to talk. And he
(28:20):
was like, listen, I'm just gonna give you a few pointers.
I'm gonna pull some things from Nick and Val to
y'all can understand how this needs to look. And he
taught us things that to this day my husband and
I still do on stage because George Fison was like,
this is the way, this is the this is the frame,
this is the way this should look. When he is singing,
(28:42):
you want to be you want to slide back when
you're singing. He's giving us all of this direction. So
if you ever come see Kendred the Family Soul on stage,
you're going to see as that's part of the legacy
that George Faizon has passed on artists and the way
that they perform. I love it. Yes, Oh my god,
(29:03):
George was amazing and we did this. We did The
Whist three times. I did The Whiz on Broadway originally,
and then I did two revivals of it and it
was always brilliant. And then the last revival we did,
I got to do it with Andre Deshields, who was Alter.
Andrea and I keep in touch. I think we're getting
(29:23):
ready to do something in October for the Whiz of
Oh my God, because he's he's one of the only
folks still like left. Yes, he's only one of the
only ones. Yes, and we can see him. It's funny.
I watched him in the Martin short where he was
he did a little stint on The Martin Short Steve
Martin Show, but just a reference for everybody. He's awesome. Yeah,
(29:45):
he's awesome. Did you enjoy the movie? I enjoyed. You know.
I was a die still is a Diana Ross fan.
Her and Michael would come to the show during that time,
almost every night to watch it. And I stayed with
Michael when he was filming the show on Sutton Place,
(30:08):
and one morning we got up and I went with
him to the shooting. But the Wiz movie was nothing
like the Whiz play You tell us how I Please?
It was their version. I mean, I was a young girl,
Diana was a school teacher. It wasn't like the play.
They didn't take it from the play and make it that. No.
But when the other director was going to do it.
(30:31):
They were considering me to do Dorothy, but when Sidney
Lamet took over, he wanted Diane Ross. It's it's literally
it's one of my favorite things. I took it to
show and tell in the third grade. I took the
record to show and tell the Wiz play had loved
and hard work and just loving it. It's just like
(30:54):
if you eat some food and it has attitude in it.
You said this, this person cook this food in the
head added to you. You can tell when when Jill
seems I'm living my life like my own golden. That
touches my heart. When people ask me how am I
living my life? I say like I'm golden. You know,
you can tell when things have loved it. And the
(31:15):
Wiz movie to me, didn't have love in it. Neither
did the one we did in twenty fifteen. That was
very interesting to me. To do a version we did
that was oh god. But you know what though, shout
outs to several people that were really that did some
(31:35):
vocally beautiful things as well. But yeah, I played on AM.
But what's interesting to me also to is that so
the movie for a lot of us is so like
significant to our kind of development as young people, those
of us who weren't able to get to bar our Way,
you know what I'm saying, right, And in my household,
(31:56):
my sister and are seven years apart. So my sister
went to you on Broadway. Okay, I didn't get that chance.
I was very little at the time. I didn't go.
And but the movie is like this huge significant thing
for me. I have an aunt who told me one time.
You know, every year, the Wizard of Oz will come
on TV, and that's what I used to watch and
(32:17):
I loved it. And I and my aunt said to
me one day, she says, this is a beautiful movie,
and I know you love it, she said, but you
will never understand the meaning of the Wizard of Oz
until you see the Wiz. The Wiz help me understand
what the real meaning of this story is. She was
like it. And so once that became like something I
(32:39):
heard from an elder, the movie took on like a
whole nother you know, life for us. But I think
the thing about the Broadway version that I think is
so important and I want to just circle back to it.
And you touched on this is that some things must
be cannon. Some things we need to really be specific
about preserve so that it lasts, so that people who
(33:03):
were not able to see it in its original form
with the original cast can go back and see a
revival of it and know that they're getting that same
experience that somebody who saw it twenty years prior saw
or experienced. It is just it's so important. I do
wish and hope for this next kind of iteration that
(33:24):
they really are trying to to respect that fact. I'm
hoping that, do you know I'm hoping. I haven't heard
much about it. I did meet one of the producers
when I went to see Piano lesson on Broadway, and
he was there and he was telling me that they're
starting to do the whiz and I told him, I
(33:48):
hope that you're staying true too. Yeah. His skin look, yeah,
his skin look yes. Okay. It's it's called respect, Stephanie.
Do you feel respected? I feel respected? You know why,
because I don't. I didn't seek respect from anybody else.
You know what I'm saying. I respect myself and my
(34:10):
fans respect me. People that I care about, people that
spend their hard earned money to buy my CDs, to
go and purchase things on my website. I feel very respected.
That's why I've never done any of those shows. Unsung.
What is that? What people getting lost in the title?
I know, bored or against it? I get I would
(34:33):
never do. They've tried to get me to do and
I'm like, no either, but friends, but that way, they
need to change the title. Now it's fun, it's weird. Yeah,
I feel very respected, especially now in my later years.
I feel very respected because I'm proud of myself of
(34:56):
not giving in to the noise. And there's a lot
of noise and Jill nose, there's a lot of people
in your eel. You should do this, you should be here,
you should do this. I didn't listen to the noise.
We're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be
right back. What are some of your like self tear
(35:29):
and like you know practices like you your skin looks amazing,
your voice is still you know you you look amazing,
you sound amazing. Like help help us help ourselves. I've
always been a sleeper. I sleep very well, my friend,
(35:50):
I sleep very well. But I go and get um
facials every four weeks, every six weeks. I get I'm
a I'm a pamper, pamper girl. I love to get
my nails done. I love to get pedicuris. I really
love to take care of myself. I sing every day
and I exercise, but now that I'm older, I can't
(36:12):
do the exercise that I was doing years ago. So
I walk on the treadmill and I'll do stuff like that.
But I I stay in tune to me. I don't
listen to like people say, oh, Stephanie, you should there
is this new I don't follow the new trend. I
follow what works for me, and what I've been doing
over the years works for me, and that's what I
tell him. I'm like, I what works for me works
(36:35):
for me. I'm not mad that you do that or
you do I've never had any bull techs. I had
my nose done when early eighties, and that's when Michael
had his done and I was following behind him and
I had I would have never known that if you
didn't say that, like it's a very good, a beautiful job.
After that, I didn't do. They kept going and I stopped.
(36:56):
But that's that's what I do. Great that you are
so aware of yourself and that you've been really honest
and vocal about your opinions and your thoughts, and you know,
like we're dealing obviously with a cancel culture. But what
I noticed when I listened to interviews that you've had
(37:19):
is that you'll be dropping all kinds of goodness and
knowledge and affirmation on people, but what will get picked
will be whatever could be remotely silacious. I've had that
experience myself and been like, well, of all the things
and then a clip of it, but not in context. Right,
(37:43):
how do you how do you deal with that? Because
I mean the option is to not say or do anything.
I'm not clapped back, you know, because the three most
important people in my life that really have that have
molded me was my mother, my father, and the Honorable
Minister Lewis Baraka, which I will never deny him in
(38:05):
a way, just like when they took him off Instagram.
I even said, you know, well you might as well
take me off because I'm still learning promote and say.
He's my pops. I've been around him since I was
sixteen years old. I will never deny him, and people
that talk about him don't really know him. I have
stayed at his house, have grown up as kids. We
used to fight as kids. So that his teachings and
(38:30):
my mother's Christian teaching, and my father because my mother
and father were deacon and deaconess of cord A Stone
Baptist Church, has molded me to who I am. I
could never I don't want to clap back at people.
It doesn't make sense. They have their opinion and I
have mine. If I want to say what I want
to say, I think about what I say and then
(38:51):
I say it because I'm never ever gonna apologize for
nothing I said. I hate when people do that shit.
If you said something and felt that way, stand on it.
Don't appolicize, But if you heard somebody Stephanie will look
at all the things that have been said about us.
(39:12):
We've been called gorillas, our first lady was disrespected the
entire eight years that they were in the White House.
They never clapped back. They're killing one, they're killing George Floyd,
They're killing us like we're nothing. What do we have
to apologize for? They heard us every day. I experience
(39:32):
racism every day when I travel, and we've I experienced
racism every day because of my braids, when my head
was straight out, didn't experience it. That's real. That's real.
They heard us every day, So what you know, It's like,
I don't intentionally, I never try to hurt anybody. But
(39:53):
if you come for me and I have not sent
for you, then I'm coming back for you. And that's
just real. She said what she said, she said what
she sent. But if you can go back and look
and see, I have never said anything hurt anybody. I
won't even mention people that have hurt me and said
things about me. But like when fifty cent came for
(40:18):
Michael's daughter, and let's talking about I came for him
because I'm older, So take it to me. She's a
young girl defending her father. Why would you say stuff
like you know? I was like, keep Michael's name out
of your mouth. He's not here to defend himself. I
love that relationship. I love when you talk about your
(40:38):
relationship with Michael, because people who don't really didn't really know,
didn't know how close that you guys were. Yeah, yeah,
and we were very very clear, and we got to
expect elders to do elder things like we can't be
mad and say we don't have elders and then try
to silence them, right, I think it's important to have
an open, open communication with our elders, obviously because we
all have a lot to learn from one another. But
(41:00):
it's just like, come on, I mean, even how you
reached out to Meggan the Stallion, that those kind of
intergenerational things to come to the defense of each of
each other is important and to correct, to openly correct
and defense. I reached out to Megan the Stallion when
she got shot in the foot. I was appalled. I was,
(41:23):
I was. It hurt my heart and a lot of
things that I see these young women go through, it
just hurts my heart. It's like, don't allow a man
to treat you like that, to disrespect your being. We
are the mothers of the earth. She had children something
(41:46):
that they cannot do. The maraggedy asked niggas they cannot do.
Don't let a man mistreat you. I've been married three
times and I will not. And it was my fault.
I mean, some of it was my fault. I can't
blame it all on the men. But these men that
they want to be us, they carry persons, They wear
more jewelry than we do. They dressing and dresses. I
(42:10):
would like to have our dresses back. I really would.
I would really like to have our dresses back. Can
we just have that shit back? I mean, I I
just don't understand it. It's like, come on, but you know,
we live in this type of world where every and
anything goes. There's no respect for no one. They don't
(42:31):
And you know what, I'm tired. That's why I didn't
even with um Tyree the man that was beaten to death.
That was very That was a person a personal beating.
But I wouldn't put that off. I'm tired of doing that.
You know, we all do it and put it on
our page and then two days later it's gone. We
(42:52):
have to change the and and and you know, I
love Reverend Shopton, but he needs to sit down because
he's not changing. He's not changing anything. It keeps going
and he keeps going to the funerals. So come on.
And I know him very well, but I'm like, look,
I'm tired of y'all getting up there and talking. We
got to change it. What do we need to do
(43:14):
to change it? That's what that's where I am. We
got to change them the thinking. And it's not so
much white people have to change their thinking about us.
We've forgiven them, We've been more than forgiving, but they
haven't changed their idea of what black people and people
of color are. It's just so tricky because the more
(43:39):
we show of ourselves, the more um it's taken stolen
bit off of shoot up from you know, it's as
soon as it's like I want I want a news
network that is created by and run by black people. Yes, us,
(44:02):
but I would like one week? Yes, but no. But
you know what the problem is, And it's just like
with black press. Once black artists crossover, they no longer
go back to the black press. They they that is true,
They don't. They don't. They don't reverence that as being important,
(44:25):
and so we have to recondition our minds that to
love ourselves. Yes, black press is important. They helped you
get to that point. Why would you just cut them out?
I always do. I always do a black press, I always,
I always do because that's who helped me get on.
Why would I just not associate? The public doesn't really
(44:47):
notice that. That's as interesting as you say that, Like,
they don't notice that some of their biggest favorite artists,
whose tickets or thousands of dollars won't be on like
they won't. It's ridiculous for anybody's ticket to be fifteen
hundred dollars or thousand dollars. That's crazy. The Hedwige Black
family can't pay that. So who are you? Who are you? Oh?
That makes me upset, That just makes me up. A
(45:09):
lot of that is and you know, Joe Biden just
came out and spoke about it. Where you know, a
lot of it is a lot of that junk fees.
A lot of fees are being attached to ticket sales
that sometimes double the cost of the tickets there. There
there's forty fifty, sixty, seventy dollars in fees. You know,
(45:32):
w a ticket that cost you know that that might
start out costing one hundred and fifty bucks, you pay
sixty dollars in fee. There's so much the Congress a
couple of weeks ago, because it is. Yeah, there's so
much attached to this. But I do understand both sides
of this thing, to be honest, you know, one hundred
percent understand where you're coming from. You know, I gotta say,
(45:54):
miss Stephanie, I'm sorry. I can't my brain can't call you, Stephanie.
I apologize, but you know, there's you know, I understand
exactly where you're coming from in the sense of that
it's like what family, what person can afford that? But
I also understand the fact that that we have a
hard time place and a proper value and what we
do a lot of us as artists where people are
(46:17):
making big, big money off of what artists do and
other artists are She's the biggest artist on the planet,
and it's like, there's there's there is got to be
some kind of way that we can continue and I
and I struggle with this because you know, I hate capitalism,
and I definitely struggle with us playing these kind of games.
(46:38):
But I also understand that as artists, we oftentimes end
up the person who benefits the least from the product
that we make. And that happens at every level, even
on that major mass, that major high high level, And
you know, so anyway that I struggle with that a
little bit, I see on both sides. Let me tell
(47:02):
you something, there ain't nobody bigger than God. There's nobody
bigger than God nowhere. And I don't care if you're
the biggest artist on the planet. I do not care.
You're not worth three thousand dollars. I take it THEREADI
(47:25):
I am going to agree to disagree because I show
enough paid a whole whapper to go see Bett Midler.
And I said in that audience, in that second row,
and I smiled as hard as I could, how much
did you pay? Thirty five hundred dollars? And Barbara Streit saying,
Barbara Streit saying when she did her Farewell tour, people
(47:45):
were paying thousands of dollars to go and see her.
So from a from a consumer standpoint, is it that
as as I follow your career and you grow, that
I too should grow and I should be able to
make enough money as you're growing to support you no
matter where you go, so that I can afford that?
Is that? How am I posting? Think as a as
(48:07):
a fan because I want to go, But I'm like,
and if the people that you put in your videos
that make you look good and make you look nice
and brown and culture and in the streets, if they
can't afford it too, and certain only certain people, then
when you look in the crowd and you only see
certain whining, don't see white people. Yeah, but I'm telling y'all,
it's a lot to it because even when you think
(48:28):
about like you you might pay thirty five hundred dollars
for a sofa, you know, and yes you sit on
it every day or year. But are what we're saying
is that art in music is not as valuable as furniture.
What we do, what we all on this almost two
what three fourths of us do on this call, is
(48:50):
what we do. What is the value? What is the
value of it? What is the value of it? What
is the value of art? I just don't think that
I paid three hundred and fifty dollars to go see
Bruno Mars. My son love Bruno Mars, and I paid
three hundred and fifty. I didn't mind paying that, but
I will never ever pay twenty five hundred three. I
(49:11):
will never pay no meal attached. I will never I
will never pay that to my son to see Kindrick Lamar.
I spend six hundred dollars. Yeah, there's no in the
front row. Did you have front row with three fifty?
Did you have front row with six hundred? I have
front row at at three fifty. I was like on
the side, uh, I had front row there, But I
(49:32):
just I guess I won't see artists because I I
don't think everybody's gonna charge that much either, you know,
and it's probably you can do it at levels. Let's
just say, let's say you do a performance with an
orchestra at I don't know, um, Carnegie Hall or the
Lincoln Center like that. How much was Princeton's tickets? He
(49:54):
didn't he how much was his tickets? Still interesting? Like
forty seven dollars? Shut up, Jill, I'm serious, Like he
had he to me he did it the right way.
He did not. How did he do that? He made
a deal with he made some kind of deal with
(50:15):
whoever was promoting him, or he didn't allow them. So
that's the thing. To make the corporations pay the big
ticket and make your fans like if you feel I
get you, Asia, you feel like you're worth it, you are,
but just not for me. Don't let them. Don't let
the cost stuff it trickled down to the consumer or
the worker. The person should not It's kind of like
(50:35):
that situation where you know that the restaurants can pay
their servers a living wage, but it's up to you
as the consumer to then, you know, we all do tip.
I always tip. I believe in tipping, but but that
should the person's livelihood shouldn't be based on that. Corporations
are constantly throwing the cost of labor that is valuable
(50:59):
into the consumers, um lab when they should be paying
people fair, fair prices. Exactly if I always, I always tip,
and I always uh tip over what it what it
is because you've got people out here working hard. But
you gotta remember, even as an artist, your fans are
(51:19):
the ones that's keeping you going. That's the pote. Meanwhile,
it's a box full of nob nation folks at the show.
They ain't even paid because you know it, don't even pay.
They don't even pay. All of the rich people that
are coming to the show, all the rich and famous,
they're not paying. You're not paying that they're not paying.
(51:39):
Oh y'all just my brain. Oh I'm you leave it
to Prince to have the answer, because Prince printed also
made a whole lot of money before he had them
made the decision. And I think some tickets at the
Greek for like twenty five dollars a ticket, and he did,
um um, what do you call a residency? And I
(52:01):
think that that's a perfect way to continue your musical legacy. Yes,
that you people can get to you. Yeah, because otherwise
they can't. I can't imagine somebody a black family saying, oh,
I'm gonna take my family to see Beyonce at three
thousand dollars a ticket. Yeah, no, two parents, like three kids.
(52:23):
You know who else kind of does this model too?
Is a chance the wrapper. Yes, he does a lot
of work where he makes the kind of corporate overhead
pay for what he's doing. You know. It's but it
gets tricky also when you start messing around with the corporations.
The thing is that with the corporations, you know, I mean,
(52:44):
there's no way that you can streaming services. You're in
You're in there, honey, you're in Oh you're already tied
into it. This is the world that we live in.
But I can't lie to you. You know. It's that
that age old you know thing, How do I function
within this system in the most ethical way possible for
myself and what I want to do? And it goes
(53:08):
back to the original kind of advice that Stephanie Oh gosh,
my body is shaking said in the beginning, where she
was just like, listen, the machine is the machine, but
you have to be able to navigate that machine with
your own kind of compass and understand who you are
within it, use it for what you can get it
(53:29):
to do, for what you needed to accomplish for the moment,
but not allowing that to kind of define you to
where that becomes how you operate. And it's really difficult.
It is really difficult, which is why you being in
the space where you are right now is not to
be under celebrated. It should be celebrated to the highest
(53:49):
degree because it's not an easy thing for people to do. Yeah. Yeah,
more conversation after the break. I my little twenty three
(54:14):
years in this business. You can't stay lettle. That's not
a lettle. Well, you know, in comparison to you, my dear,
I can see how people can give up. I can
see how. I went to see a showcase last night
of talented young people. They put on the best show.
One of the young girls, I think she's like fifteen
(54:36):
years old. She sang at last with all the conviction
and sincerity that you could sing at last. She did that,
And then I say that, you know, there's different levels
of careers, if level is the right word, just just
different careers. And if you can make one doing something
that you love to do, that feels right for your soul,
(54:58):
truly and sincerely, even when nobody's around, and especially when
nobody's around. If you can create a career like that
for yourself, you have absolutely one. How do you forgive
those that attempted to stop you or diminish you or
(55:27):
stand in the way. How do you do that? And
if you do a lot of therapy and giving it
to God and taking my hands off of it, it's like, God,
it's too much for me to bear, and then go
talk to my therapist. That's what you have to have
to do. And then you still have to believe that
(55:48):
you're moving in the right direction for you. That's the
most important thing is to stay your course, because if
you get our course, you're doing what somebody else wants
you to do. And people will always say, well, she
didn't listen, she didn't do this. But I'm still here
and I'm still enjoying my life and living my life
(56:11):
on my own terms, and that's what I wanted. I'm
living my life and doing what I want to do
on my own terms, and that's so important. Thank you
so much. How can we continue to support you? Stephanie, like,
how do you How can we continue to love on you?
Everybody who's listening to just say a prayer for me,
(56:33):
Say a prayer for me. You know you want to
come to my show, Come to my show, but just
say a prayer for me, and remember what I You
know what I've said, and take it to heart. And
you can use me as an example. Because I never
wanted to be an artist that wound up broke, wound
(56:54):
up in a drughouse. I never wanted to be that
because I saw that, so I never so. I always
lived my life under the radar and was able to
take care of myself no matter what happened. And I
think that's important. It's not how well you live, it's
how long you live. Well, that's important. Bars can I
(57:17):
say something, Yes, I didn't get a chance to fangirl
on you earlier in the show properly, but I shoven
know that vocally you are just, oh my god, just
absolute perfection. The personality, the personality and how your vocal
(57:41):
performance it is just like all of the layers of it,
all of the feeling I don't even know. You know,
a lot of times we talk about as little girls
who we tried to emulate. And we don't talk enough
about how we all emulated you, how we all stood
in the mirror, we all, me and my step brother.
(58:03):
I want you to understand we were. I've been up
and I've been down in that I'm VORs right now.
I want to embarrass myself, but I'm like the times
that we stood in that mirror on our tippy toes, honey,
and my brother he's gay. We were giving full you know,
(58:25):
full you know, tow wig and everything. Okay, we were.
We were fully engaged and you know, so just to
just to have you here and talking to you and
just hearing your wisdom, I just want to make sure
that I give you your flowers. Obviously, Jill is and
gives flowers in the best way like she's She's so
(58:47):
amazingly talented at giving flowers. So mine are, you know,
a little bit disjunct. You know whatever I'm wraggoning mine
is a little raggedy. But I love you, I do,
oh my gosh. And I just to have what you
have done to preserve your spirit and your mind, your heart,
(59:08):
your soul and your craft is inspiring and it is
necessary and we will protect you at all costs. Oh,
thank you, thank you, thank you so much. It is
complete affirmation. This is a real three sixty for real.
(59:33):
Please continue to enjoy j Do Elda podcast. We have
conversations to spark conversation and action. It is an honor
to have this day. I hope you all feel the same.
(59:54):
Thank you so much, Thank you, love everybody making us cry?
How do you eat an elephant? One? By it time?
Hey listeners, it's Amber the producer here. We hope you
(01:00:15):
love miss Mills as much as we do. I mean,
of course you do. As you mentioned on the podcast,
The Legend is on tour this year. I'll drop a
link below in the show notes and that's it. Go
and see the legend that is Stephanie Mills. Hi. If
(01:00:45):
you have comments on something he said in this episode,
call eight six six Hey Jill, if you want to
add to this conversation, that's eight six six four three
nine five four five five. Don't forget to tell us
your name and the episode referring to you might just
hear your message on a future episode. Thank you for
(01:01:05):
listening to Jill Scott presents Jay dot Ill. The podcast
Jay dot Ill is a production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Jay dot Ill, a production of iHeartRadio. Hi,
welcome to Jay dot Ill the Podcast. This is Jill
Scott and I'm here with my sister friends. Hey, Joe
Graydon Dan's luck. That would be myself and Layah's Saint Claire.
(00:23):
You better talk about it, tell the world about it. Yeah,
today's uh, this conversation that we're having today, I'm having
a little bit of trouble because you know, I don't
I don't know where to begin. Bless see. Well, I
remember being a little girl with my mom and we
got all dressed up and she even I even had
(00:45):
a purse that day, and I don't know how she
managed this, um, but we were on the front row
of a play and um my mom had taken me
to many plays at this point, and you know, I
was I was sighted, and I was told to, you know,
cross my legs because I was sitting in a front seat,
which I did like a little lady. And I even
(01:07):
had perfume at that well, we saw The Whiz and
I remember there were parts that scared me and I
climbed under the chair because I was afraid, and my
mom said, it's okay, it's okay. It's okay. And I
remember sitting back in my chair and watching and I
had my whole body pushed forward and this voice, all
(01:31):
ladies and gentlemen, this voice it was it was just
it was pure and warm and real and honest. And
when she sang home, I'm about to cry. I'm trying
to getting myself together. When she sang home, it was
this feeling of like somebody had poured syrup, warm syrup,
(01:51):
all over our bodies. It was one of the most amazing,
incredible experiences that I've had in a life, in a
whole lifetime. I'm going to continue with some more stories.
Years later, many many years later, I had an album
out and I was doing pretty good, I think, and
(02:12):
there was an artist who had a number one hit
on the radio. And this is this is hearsay. I
don't know if this is true or not, but I'm
gonna go ahead and tell this story. Well, anyway, there
was this this artist that had a number one hit
on the radio. It was everywhere was great for them,
and they were doing a show with this woman that
(02:33):
I'm going to introduce you to. Okay, anyway, so the
artist was upset that they had to go before the
woman that we're about to speak to now, and made
a big stink about it, made such a stink to
the promoters and such they said fine, you know, I
mean didn't say fine. But actually the artist that is
(02:54):
here with us today she heard because people in the
band were overhearing, you know, the foolishness I want. I
don't understand. I got a number one hit. So the
band went back and told this lovely artist that I'm
with and she said, go ahead, let them close. Well, honey,
(03:16):
I was not there, okay, so take this with with
the you know, a spoonful of not even a spoon,
take it with a grain of salt, because I was
not there. But from what I understand from the musicians
that were there and the artist members that were there,
that Miss Stephanie Mills got on stage and proceeded to
(03:38):
tear the bricks out of the building one by one.
Don't buy one, understand dub And she hadn't even sung
home yet. Okay, Oh they be Afterwards, after the crowd
(04:02):
hads cried and sung and danced and hugged each other
and cheered Miss Stephanie Mills on. They were exhausted because
she left no crumbs, not a single one. Everybody was full, okay.
And then the artist that made such a stink went
(04:24):
on after her and sang the one song that they
had that was the hit. And that's all you can
really say is blessed, bless their heart, ladies and gentlemen.
It is are great and deep honor and pleasure to
(04:44):
say hello to miss Stephanie Mills. SI you guys, and
you know that is a true story. It's sad, but
it's true. But later years, that same artist, like maybe
last two years ago, sent me a letter and apologized
(05:04):
for that. And and that was that bb Kings. Yeah,
was that bb Kings. I don't want to say the
artist name because I'm not into that, but that was
that was a true story. She wouldn't even take a
picture with me. We won't want to take picture. She
wouldn't take a picture with me or anything. And I
was like, okay, this, I can go on. First even now,
(05:27):
I have no problem. First, second, whatever, I'm going to
go on and enjoy myself because I really love to
perform and sing. So even now and even now, there's
some artists out there that are mean, you know, and
they are of my age and of my error and
they're still mean and I don't know why, but I
(05:47):
just like to enjoy and I like to lift us up.
I'm unapologetically black. Yes you were, I say black, Andy, Black,
black up in here. As as a general rule, welcome home,
Thank you, thank you. We love you for it. We do.
(06:13):
You're just the tiny pocket of fantastic and brilliant vocals.
My goodness. Wow wow wow wow. Okay. We need that
kind of we need you know, that kind of leadership
and an energy at all times amongst us, those of
(06:33):
us who are strong in who we are and in
and in our craft. Yes, because all don't decide to
do both right. Some decide to just be strong in
the craft, which is fine, But others who decide to
be strong in the craft, but then also be strong
in their word and what they say, in their identity
(06:54):
and who they are and repping for us as a
community and a culture. That's very important to me, because
there's a lot of scared negroes out there, and I
don't know why in twenty twenty three were still afraid.
You know, I've been told so many times, oh, you're
going to be blacklisted, or you're gonna be this if
you do that. You know, when I took off to
(07:14):
have my son in five years, I was home with
him coming home because I wanted to be home with
my son when he came home to school. Oh that's
a death, that's suicide. I've had people tell me, oh,
dark girls are not popular anymore and you should learn
how to sing jazz and to that, you know, I
just listen and I'm like, you have your opinion, but
(07:35):
God has a whole another opinion. And That's how I've
always lived my life. I've always you know, I've always
been told I was to this, too black, to this,
too short, not pretty enough, and I never bought into that.
I always stayed in my lane, did what I wanted
to do, and I never wanted to be well. I
am pop because I am popular, just like Jill, it's pop,
(08:00):
she's popular, So what is pop? You know, I've always
said we're popular, We already pop. You know, it's just
what they choose to put their machine behind. And I've
had that machine behind me early in my career, and
I understood what it meant and what it didn't mean.
But I chose to be who I am, and I
(08:23):
liked what I was doing, so I didn't want to.
I didn't want to have to sell my soul to
be a certain to get at a certain level. And
I don't like when people say, oh, you should be
at this level? What level you're already at a level?
What level is that? I never understood that when people
say sell your soul, what does that mean to you?
(08:46):
That means that you have done or will do just
about anything to be in a circle of people that
you don't need to be in. All the people that
I know that have been encircles what they thought was
better or that would further their career is dead. M
(09:09):
they are dead. Um why do we I don't. I
never understood why we see artists, our black artists, or
you see the example of what not to do, and
then you continue to go down that same time. I never,
I never understood it. And I never understand why we
(09:29):
think vanilla ice cream is colder than chocolate. I never,
I never understood that. And I don't know if it's
what we think. What do you think it is? Like
you said, um, some artists are pushed, some content is pushed,
and that is to keep us not loving each other, yes,
(09:54):
not being kind to one another, not listening to one another, separating.
It's the said whole, you know, Willie Lynch thing still
absolutely absolutely However, you know, people argue about if that's
true or not, but it appears to be true to
me because it's continuing separate the light from the dark,
the young from the old, separate the families from their children,
(10:18):
you know, just separation. And it's it appears that this
is what this particular society enjoys. They prefer us that way.
You said something I won't pretend to quote you, but
I thought it was absolutely the truth you said. It
was something along the lines of, um, they want our music,
(10:39):
just not from us, Yes, they want R and B,
but not from me or you. They wanted from Justin
Timberlake or Adell or Molly Cyrus. So you know there's
still you know, like, how can you name Justin Timberlake
the R and B king? What is that? Who did that? Nobody?
You know? Is so offensive? It's very offensive. I find
(11:02):
it offensive. But it's what it is, you know. It's like,
it's what it is. You don't expect anything different. But
if like uh Tyweese that song Shane, that was incredible
and Justin Timberlake sang that song. Yes'll be hearing it
right now, right right, it would have he would want
(11:25):
all kind of Grammys, all kinds of this. It's the
same thing, and it's really sad. Yeah, because we followed it.
We followed the same model. When we become we do
the same thing. I would saying with somebody the other
day they were like, why do you why do some
people feel like they need a white figurehead to do things?
I was like, no, shase definitely, But I was like,
it's a very boomer mentality. But it's not their fault,
(11:45):
right right, It's not their fault because that's what they
had to do. So now we're stopping it, but we
need to continue to tell the story of why we
did it and why it wasn't their fault. But you
know it's it's yeah. I mean, we have a business
that doesn't like to update its modality. It fights every
time our business has to shift or change, it fights
it tooth and nail. Yes, And I don't know if
(12:07):
that's like that with every other industry, but this industry
is very married to the way that it does things,
and so people just don't want to shift or change.
More real talk after the break. You mentioned the machine.
(12:35):
I really want you to speak to some of the
younger artists. I think the machine is very It's attractive
because it helps to get things done that they think
they need to get done. What are some of the
things that they need to really think about if they're
going to engage with the machine. How do you maintain
and still end up a Stephanie Mills having the mentality
(12:58):
that you have after interacting with that. Stay true to yourself,
you know, know how, just like they know how to
deal with us, you have to know and learn how
to deal with them and get what we need from
them in just that space. But keep your surroundings small
(13:19):
and keep people that you can trust. You can't trust everybody,
and sometimes even the people that you have around you
will sell you out. So you have to give what
you can give. But keep the best part of yourself
or yourself yourself. Don't teach everybody everything you know. Oh,
(13:41):
I always say you can give. You could give a lot,
but definitely keep keep the most important parts for yourselves.
You have to you have to and just navigate, navigate
through it. That's not what they do because they they
throw us away when they're finished making money off of us,
and then there's an you flavor, you know what I'm saying.
(14:03):
So as soon as they make money, I mean, they'll
cancel us just like nothing. It's nothing to them, We
mean nothing to them. We are dollar cents, we are dollars.
And I mean, look how they made the rap game
R and B? What what is that? For a long
(14:23):
time took the R and B category of off television.
I think it still is. It still is because it
doesn't matter to them. And why we don't see that,
Why we don't address that. The ones that have that
kind of power, the ones that have elevated to that
kind of power, why don't they adjust that? They don't
(14:44):
because they're afraid to be canceled. Yeah, I absolutely believe
that we need a whole other thing. We need We
need other shows, We need other support, We need other
outlets we do that that really celebrate excellence. But here's
the thing we have. We have some other shows, right
(15:04):
like we have Image Awards, we now have De Grio.
The question is the way that certain shows legitimize you
as an artist. You can have a fifty dozen black things,
but if this is this, this one is the king,
and you keep making it the king, and you make
it the king, right, you pay your money. And the
thing is, the king don't pay you. The king doesn't
(15:26):
give you anything. You pay the king to sit in
the king's court. And this is this is this is
when we don't elevate. Like I said, if you're using
the same model and you slap a black face on it,
it's not different. This is the problem though, that a
lot of people don't know a lot of the black
shows are written by white writers. A lot of them. Yes, yes, yes,
(15:51):
they put a black director or a black producer in
front of it to make you think it's black. And
they did. That's why I thought that, because Jesse p did.
It's not it's not. Then these these black shows have
a white producer that's telling them what they can and
cannot do. That's the problem. And then you have your
(16:12):
beets who sold to to what Amazon? You think they
care about us? I think Barry Gordy should have held
on to motown. We sell our things out and whites
hold on to theirs. That's power, that's wealth, you know
what I'm saying. It's like we should Bob Johnson should
(16:34):
have never sold b et why white people hold on
to their things. We got to learn to hold on
to ours and pass it down to our children. I
saw an interview recently with Byron Allen shout out to him.
He said he was in the in the room when
Barry Gordy sold Motown, and he said all he could
do with crying. I'm just grown in in the suit
(16:57):
handling business, just sobbing like a baby. You know. I
probably added more to that. Yeah, it's like, how much
more money do you really need? Is that's so powerful?
We should still own Motel and I think I agree
it's been revitalized. I also think if we're going to
have these companies, we also need to be more ethical
(17:18):
about our practices. Yes, if we are, we have to
step up and be better than what we've been taught
to be from these other, you know examples. If we're
going to be exploitative too to our own people, then
what does that say? So a lot of times it's
for me, it's it's it's and in both we should
be an ownership of our own things, but we should
(17:39):
be operating at a level that far exceeds the ethical
or the moral compass or whatever you want to call it.
You know that these I mean a completely different model, Yes,
completely different, because you know me personally, I'm not happy
with a black man owning my masters, no more than
I'm happy with a white man owning master absolutely. Um
(18:03):
huh wow. And where do we start? Well, I love it. This,
this is tea baby. And where do we start? I'm
into it. Listen, it's gonna be quiet because this is
what you do. This is this is what you do,
ladies and gentlemen of however old you are, when you
are in a space with someone who has far more
experience than you, who has seen and felt things that
(18:26):
you you couldn't even put into words. When you're in
that space, you get quiet. Okay. So this is one
of those times that I'm just so pleased to be
able to speak to you. We all are, which is
so pleased and excited. What are you excited about? I'm
(18:49):
excited about us. I love us and I will for
My mother was a very strong, strong woman and had
a business in Brooklyn. I'm from Brooklyn, New York, grew
up in bed Stot. My mother was an activist and
didn't even know it, you know, she was always like cookie,
(19:11):
don't have a look back. That's what my family called me, cookie.
Don't ever look back. If you can't be the corn,
don't be the cob. You know. It's it's those things
that she taught me when I was a little girl.
I now so understand. You know, she told me not
to trust. You know, she's from the South, so she
didn't trust a lot of white She didn't trust even
(19:35):
some of the blacks that was there. But she definitely
taught me to pay attention to what was going on.
And when you're growing up, you're like, oh, mom, I
don't want to do that. But now that I as
I gotten older, I really realized what she was telling me,
and I apply that to my life, my every day life.
I'm excited just about living, and now that I have
(19:59):
at sixty, going to be sixty six, I have joy
and I have peace. I didn't allow this business to
ruin me. I never was about the business. I love
to sing and I love to do it, but I
was never about the fake shit, you know, going to
the parties and having to be done up one hundred
percent all the time. I wasn't Stephanie Mills all the time.
(20:22):
That's deadly. You cannot be yourself. It's deadly. I mean,
you have to go to the post office, So I
go to the grocery store. You know, I have a
normal life because that shit fades away. You're riding a
limousine every day, and what if you lose all your stuff?
Didn't what happens? You're like crazy. And I know an
(20:43):
artist in particular, I won't mention the name that did
not know how to function, couldn't do anything on her own,
and she's not with us anymore. But I always wanted
to drive myself. I didn't get caught up in old
Miss Mills, old NA because I know who I am,
(21:04):
I know where I came from. I came from Brooklyn.
My mother was like, you still have to wash those dishes,
You still have to clean your room. Yeah, a lot
of stuff is it's fake. Even when I was doing
the whiz at uh at nineteen, my mother still made
me do chores, you know. And I just think you
have to keep it real. Don't get caught up in
(21:26):
the Oh your star what stars are in the sky?
Sound like Jill in the sky? Let me tell you.
So it's like you sing and you and and I
appreciate my fans, so so so much as when everybody
canceled me in the industry, I was able to I
(21:50):
was still I was because I missed it. I'm like,
I'm telling you, I still was able to do my
shows and sell out my shows. When was that, well,
you mean years years ago. But even now, you know,
I was never the popular one. I was never like
(22:11):
I was never like the popular one because I wasn't
willing to do like when I lived in Los Angeles,
because I lived in Los Angeles for nine years and
I would go to auditions, which I hate auditioning. They
would always make you feel so small. And so I
called my mom one day and I was like, I
just don't want an audition. I was crying. I was like,
(22:32):
I can't do it. They just look at you like
you're crazy. But she said, don't do it. She said,
only do what people offer you. She said go where
you're celebrated, not tolerated. And I never forgot that, and
that's what I teach my son, and Honey, he thinks
he's the king of the world. You can He's like,
I go with celebrated, not tolerated. And that's what I did.
(22:56):
And that was after the Wiz you're talking about her.
That was because I didn't want to for The Whiz.
I went to the Wiz audition chrime because I had
gone up for so many things and didn't get them,
so I was like, I don't want to go. My
mother took me and I sang for them, and then
they called me back and after three auditions, I got
the roles as Dorothy. That's the one. Yes, that was
(23:18):
the safe. That was where they wanted you. Okay, do
you do you remember how much you got paid on Broadway.
I got paid fifteen hundred dollars a week plus perdem
plus perdem. That's pretty good, right for the time. I
mean fifteen ten thousand dollars to day or ten thousand
(23:38):
dollars a week. Yeah, that I got paid fifteen hundred dollars. Yep,
I remember that. That was such a glorious time to
be around all of that, and Charlie Smalls and Ken Harper,
Oh my god, yes. Oh. And love when you say
his name? You know, I love when you say his name, right,
Ted Ross? Ted Ross, Yeah, Ross was amazing. He won
(24:05):
a Tony for the show. The Whiz won seven Tony's Yes,
and we won for best musical Dedi Bridgewater one for
Glinda ted Ross one. But it was just. But they
did not want us on Broadway, no, honey. They gave
us the worst reviews ever. But my mother belonged to
a church, Cornerstone Baptist Church in Brooklyn, and Ken Harper's
(24:28):
mother belonged to a huge church, and they brought churchloads
of buses to our show. And then once we did
the commercial, then it opened up and the Whiz was
but even still the way the Whiz closed, they weren't
gracious to us. Yeah, we remever hear their story. No,
they weren't gracious. They moved us. We were at the
(24:49):
Majestic Theater and they moved us to the Broadway Theater,
which was a bigger theater. Well, we had been on
Broadway for five years. So what they did was they
moved us where we would fail and the and the
Wiz didn't do the business at the Broadway Theater that
it did at the Majestic. They should have never moved us.
But they didn't want us there anymore. M hm. And
(25:13):
Broadway is truly the Great White Way. They don't want us,
They do not want us there at all time. We
had racing in the sun. We had Bubbling Brown Show.
There was nothing but black shows on Broadway. When the
whisticated ladies, sophisticated ladies shot George to his name, his name, brilliant, brilliant.
(25:45):
There will never be a choreographer that did the Wiz
storm like George Faison did. They're bringing uh the Wiz
back to Broadway, but I don't care what they do.
If it ain't gonna be the exact thing, it ain't
never gonna be right. Makes zero sense to me because
I know when when I was doing Rent, if I
(26:06):
did anything different, I got a note. Yes, you're supposed
to uphold the writer's concept. You are not supposed to
budge or move. Once it's solidified, it is done, and
you do anything off, of course you're gonna get fired. Yea.
But you know what, it seems like there is a
bit of an obsession with a reconstant reworking of the Whiz,
(26:31):
the not upholding of the you know, of the original. Yeah,
and I don't feel like it's all the way bad,
but I'm just I mean not, I don't think it's bad.
I just think it's just interesting how it is something
culturally that we want to continue to reimagine exactly rather
than uphold the original in that way, you know what
(26:54):
I'm saying. Where they uphold Hello Dolly, they have a
whole funny girl. They uphold Chicago Fago. You know nothing
about why do we have to change something that wons
seven Tony Awards. And Stephanie, you mentioned something very important
you mentioned when you were talking about George Faison and
(27:14):
the wind scene. People don't understand that this woman right
here that is the wind exactly with If you don't
see that, you have no reference of, like what the
symbol that you see when you see the original Wiz meetings.
It's gonna be very interesting to see what they do
to the Wiz, and if they do something that is
(27:37):
not good, I'm definitely going to speak out about it. Yes, yeah,
I want to shout out George Paison also because George
Faison also did so much work with so many R
and B artists, in particular Yes Earth went in Fire
and and also with Ashford and Simpson. And I remember
(27:58):
when we met with George and we were working on
a project with him at one point, and George Faizon
got us together. I just need you to I just
put that. He got my husband, Yes, he got me
and my husband together on stage. He came out to
see our show and he was just like, we need
to talk, and yes, we need to talk. And he
(28:20):
was like, listen, I'm just gonna give you a few pointers.
I'm gonna pull some things from Nick and Val to
y'all can understand how this needs to look. And he
taught us things that to this day my husband and
I still do on stage because George Fison was like,
this is the way, this is the this is the frame,
this is the way this should look. When he is singing,
(28:42):
you want to be you want to slide back when
you're singing. He's giving us all of this direction. So
if you ever come see Kendred the Family Soul on stage,
you're going to see as that's part of the legacy
that George Faizon has passed on artists and the way
that they perform. I love it. Yes, Oh my god,
(29:03):
George was amazing and we did this. We did The
Whist three times. I did The Whiz on Broadway originally,
and then I did two revivals of it and it
was always brilliant. And then the last revival we did,
I got to do it with Andre Deshields, who was Alter.
Andrea and I keep in touch. I think we're getting
(29:23):
ready to do something in October for the Whiz of
Oh my God, because he's he's one of the only
folks still like left. Yes, he's only one of the
only ones. Yes, and we can see him. It's funny.
I watched him in the Martin short where he was
he did a little stint on The Martin Short Steve
Martin Show, but just a reference for everybody. He's awesome. Yeah,
(29:45):
he's awesome. Did you enjoy the movie? I enjoyed. You know.
I was a die still is a Diana Ross fan.
Her and Michael would come to the show during that time,
almost every night to watch it. And I stayed with
Michael when he was filming the show on Sutton Place,
(30:08):
and one morning we got up and I went with
him to the shooting. But the Wiz movie was nothing
like the Whiz play You tell us how I Please?
It was their version. I mean, I was a young girl,
Diana was a school teacher. It wasn't like the play.
They didn't take it from the play and make it that. No.
But when the other director was going to do it.
(30:31):
They were considering me to do Dorothy, but when Sidney
Lamet took over, he wanted Diane Ross. It's it's literally
it's one of my favorite things. I took it to
show and tell in the third grade. I took the
record to show and tell the Wiz play had loved
and hard work and just loving it. It's just like
(30:54):
if you eat some food and it has attitude in it.
You said this, this person cook this food in the
head added to you. You can tell when when Jill
seems I'm living my life like my own golden. That
touches my heart. When people ask me how am I
living my life? I say like I'm golden. You know,
you can tell when things have loved it. And the
(31:15):
Wiz movie to me, didn't have love in it. Neither
did the one we did in twenty fifteen. That was
very interesting to me. To do a version we did
that was oh god. But you know what though, shout
outs to several people that were really that did some
(31:35):
vocally beautiful things as well. But yeah, I played on AM.
But what's interesting to me also to is that so
the movie for a lot of us is so like
significant to our kind of development as young people, those
of us who weren't able to get to bar our Way,
you know what I'm saying, right, And in my household,
(31:56):
my sister and are seven years apart. So my sister
went to you on Broadway. Okay, I didn't get that chance.
I was very little at the time. I didn't go.
And but the movie is like this huge significant thing
for me. I have an aunt who told me one time.
You know, every year, the Wizard of Oz will come
on TV, and that's what I used to watch and
(32:17):
I loved it. And I and my aunt said to
me one day, she says, this is a beautiful movie,
and I know you love it, she said, but you
will never understand the meaning of the Wizard of Oz
until you see the Wiz. The Wiz help me understand
what the real meaning of this story is. She was
like it. And so once that became like something I
(32:39):
heard from an elder, the movie took on like a
whole nother you know, life for us. But I think
the thing about the Broadway version that I think is
so important and I want to just circle back to it.
And you touched on this is that some things must
be cannon. Some things we need to really be specific
about preserve so that it lasts, so that people who
(33:03):
were not able to see it in its original form
with the original cast can go back and see a
revival of it and know that they're getting that same
experience that somebody who saw it twenty years prior saw
or experienced. It is just it's so important. I do
wish and hope for this next kind of iteration that
(33:24):
they really are trying to to respect that fact. I'm
hoping that, do you know I'm hoping. I haven't heard
much about it. I did meet one of the producers
when I went to see Piano lesson on Broadway, and
he was there and he was telling me that they're
starting to do the whiz and I told him, I
(33:48):
hope that you're staying true too. Yeah. His skin look, yeah,
his skin look yes. Okay. It's it's called respect, Stephanie.
Do you feel respected? I feel respected? You know why,
because I don't. I didn't seek respect from anybody else.
You know what I'm saying. I respect myself and my
(34:10):
fans respect me. People that I care about, people that
spend their hard earned money to buy my CDs, to
go and purchase things on my website. I feel very respected.
That's why I've never done any of those shows. Unsung.
What is that? What people getting lost in the title?
I know, bored or against it? I get I would
(34:33):
never do. They've tried to get me to do and
I'm like, no either, but friends, but that way, they
need to change the title. Now it's fun, it's weird. Yeah,
I feel very respected, especially now in my later years.
I feel very respected because I'm proud of myself of
(34:56):
not giving in to the noise. And there's a lot
of noise and Jill nose, there's a lot of people
in your eel. You should do this, you should be here,
you should do this. I didn't listen to the noise.
We're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be
right back. What are some of your like self tear
(35:29):
and like you know practices like you your skin looks amazing,
your voice is still you know you you look amazing,
you sound amazing. Like help help us help ourselves. I've
always been a sleeper. I sleep very well, my friend,
(35:50):
I sleep very well. But I go and get um
facials every four weeks, every six weeks. I get I'm
a I'm a pamper, pamper girl. I love to get
my nails done. I love to get pedicuris. I really
love to take care of myself. I sing every day
and I exercise, but now that I'm older, I can't
(36:12):
do the exercise that I was doing years ago. So
I walk on the treadmill and I'll do stuff like that.
But I I stay in tune to me. I don't
listen to like people say, oh, Stephanie, you should there
is this new I don't follow the new trend. I
follow what works for me, and what I've been doing
over the years works for me, and that's what I
tell him. I'm like, I what works for me works
(36:35):
for me. I'm not mad that you do that or
you do I've never had any bull techs. I had
my nose done when early eighties, and that's when Michael
had his done and I was following behind him and
I had I would have never known that if you
didn't say that, like it's a very good, a beautiful job.
After that, I didn't do. They kept going and I stopped.
(36:56):
But that's that's what I do. Great that you are
so aware of yourself and that you've been really honest
and vocal about your opinions and your thoughts, and you know,
like we're dealing obviously with a cancel culture. But what
I noticed when I listened to interviews that you've had
(37:19):
is that you'll be dropping all kinds of goodness and
knowledge and affirmation on people, but what will get picked
will be whatever could be remotely silacious. I've had that
experience myself and been like, well, of all the things
and then a clip of it, but not in context. Right,
(37:43):
how do you how do you deal with that? Because
I mean the option is to not say or do anything.
I'm not clapped back, you know, because the three most
important people in my life that really have that have
molded me was my mother, my father, and the Honorable
Minister Lewis Baraka, which I will never deny him in
(38:05):
a way, just like when they took him off Instagram.
I even said, you know, well you might as well
take me off because I'm still learning promote and say.
He's my pops. I've been around him since I was
sixteen years old. I will never deny him, and people
that talk about him don't really know him. I have
stayed at his house, have grown up as kids. We
used to fight as kids. So that his teachings and
(38:30):
my mother's Christian teaching, and my father because my mother
and father were deacon and deaconess of cord A Stone
Baptist Church, has molded me to who I am. I
could never I don't want to clap back at people.
It doesn't make sense. They have their opinion and I
have mine. If I want to say what I want
to say, I think about what I say and then
(38:51):
I say it because I'm never ever gonna apologize for
nothing I said. I hate when people do that shit.
If you said something and felt that way, stand on it.
Don't appolicize, But if you heard somebody Stephanie will look
at all the things that have been said about us.
(39:12):
We've been called gorillas, our first lady was disrespected the
entire eight years that they were in the White House.
They never clapped back. They're killing one, they're killing George Floyd,
They're killing us like we're nothing. What do we have
to apologize for? They heard us every day. I experience
(39:32):
racism every day when I travel, and we've I experienced
racism every day because of my braids, when my head
was straight out, didn't experience it. That's real. That's real.
They heard us every day, So what you know, It's like,
I don't intentionally, I never try to hurt anybody. But
(39:53):
if you come for me and I have not sent
for you, then I'm coming back for you. And that's
just real. She said what she said, she said what
she sent. But if you can go back and look
and see, I have never said anything hurt anybody. I
won't even mention people that have hurt me and said
things about me. But like when fifty cent came for
(40:18):
Michael's daughter, and let's talking about I came for him
because I'm older, So take it to me. She's a
young girl defending her father. Why would you say stuff
like you know? I was like, keep Michael's name out
of your mouth. He's not here to defend himself. I
love that relationship. I love when you talk about your
(40:38):
relationship with Michael, because people who don't really didn't really know,
didn't know how close that you guys were. Yeah, yeah,
and we were very very clear, and we got to
expect elders to do elder things like we can't be
mad and say we don't have elders and then try
to silence them, right, I think it's important to have
an open, open communication with our elders, obviously because we
all have a lot to learn from one another. But
(41:00):
it's just like, come on, I mean, even how you
reached out to Meggan the Stallion, that those kind of
intergenerational things to come to the defense of each of
each other is important and to correct, to openly correct
and defense. I reached out to Megan the Stallion when
she got shot in the foot. I was appalled. I was,
(41:23):
I was. It hurt my heart and a lot of
things that I see these young women go through, it
just hurts my heart. It's like, don't allow a man
to treat you like that, to disrespect your being. We
are the mothers of the earth. She had children something
(41:46):
that they cannot do. The maraggedy asked niggas they cannot do.
Don't let a man mistreat you. I've been married three
times and I will not. And it was my fault.
I mean, some of it was my fault. I can't
blame it all on the men. But these men that
they want to be us, they carry persons, They wear
more jewelry than we do. They dressing and dresses. I
(42:10):
would like to have our dresses back. I really would.
I would really like to have our dresses back. Can
we just have that shit back? I mean, I I
just don't understand it. It's like, come on, but you know,
we live in this type of world where every and
anything goes. There's no respect for no one. They don't
(42:31):
And you know what, I'm tired. That's why I didn't
even with um Tyree the man that was beaten to death.
That was very That was a person a personal beating.
But I wouldn't put that off. I'm tired of doing that.
You know, we all do it and put it on
our page and then two days later it's gone. We
(42:52):
have to change the and and and you know, I
love Reverend Shopton, but he needs to sit down because
he's not changing. He's not changing anything. It keeps going
and he keeps going to the funerals. So come on.
And I know him very well, but I'm like, look,
I'm tired of y'all getting up there and talking. We
got to change it. What do we need to do
(43:14):
to change it? That's what that's where I am. We
got to change them the thinking. And it's not so
much white people have to change their thinking about us.
We've forgiven them, We've been more than forgiving, but they
haven't changed their idea of what black people and people
of color are. It's just so tricky because the more
(43:39):
we show of ourselves, the more um it's taken stolen
bit off of shoot up from you know, it's as
soon as it's like I want I want a news
network that is created by and run by black people. Yes, us,
(44:02):
but I would like one week? Yes, but no. But
you know what the problem is, And it's just like
with black press. Once black artists crossover, they no longer
go back to the black press. They they that is true,
They don't. They don't. They don't reverence that as being important,
(44:25):
and so we have to recondition our minds that to
love ourselves. Yes, black press is important. They helped you
get to that point. Why would you just cut them out?
I always do. I always do a black press, I always,
I always do because that's who helped me get on.
Why would I just not associate? The public doesn't really
(44:47):
notice that. That's as interesting as you say that, Like,
they don't notice that some of their biggest favorite artists,
whose tickets or thousands of dollars won't be on like
they won't. It's ridiculous for anybody's ticket to be fifteen
hundred dollars or thousand dollars. That's crazy. The Hedwige Black
family can't pay that. So who are you? Who are you? Oh?
That makes me upset, That just makes me up. A
(45:09):
lot of that is and you know, Joe Biden just
came out and spoke about it. Where you know, a
lot of it is a lot of that junk fees.
A lot of fees are being attached to ticket sales
that sometimes double the cost of the tickets there. There
there's forty fifty, sixty, seventy dollars in fees. You know,
(45:32):
w a ticket that cost you know that that might
start out costing one hundred and fifty bucks, you pay
sixty dollars in fee. There's so much the Congress a
couple of weeks ago, because it is. Yeah, there's so
much attached to this. But I do understand both sides
of this thing, to be honest, you know, one hundred
percent understand where you're coming from. You know, I gotta say,
(45:54):
miss Stephanie, I'm sorry. I can't my brain can't call you, Stephanie.
I apologize, but you know, there's you know, I understand
exactly where you're coming from in the sense of that
it's like what family, what person can afford that? But
I also understand the fact that that we have a
hard time place and a proper value and what we
do a lot of us as artists where people are
(46:17):
making big, big money off of what artists do and
other artists are She's the biggest artist on the planet,
and it's like, there's there's there is got to be
some kind of way that we can continue and I
and I struggle with this because you know, I hate capitalism,
and I definitely struggle with us playing these kind of games.
(46:38):
But I also understand that as artists, we oftentimes end
up the person who benefits the least from the product
that we make. And that happens at every level, even
on that major mass, that major high high level, And
you know, so anyway that I struggle with that a
little bit, I see on both sides. Let me tell
(47:02):
you something, there ain't nobody bigger than God. There's nobody
bigger than God nowhere. And I don't care if you're
the biggest artist on the planet. I do not care.
You're not worth three thousand dollars. I take it THEREADI
(47:25):
I am going to agree to disagree because I show
enough paid a whole whapper to go see Bett Midler.
And I said in that audience, in that second row,
and I smiled as hard as I could, how much
did you pay? Thirty five hundred dollars? And Barbara Streit saying,
Barbara Streit saying when she did her Farewell tour, people
(47:45):
were paying thousands of dollars to go and see her.
So from a from a consumer standpoint, is it that
as as I follow your career and you grow, that
I too should grow and I should be able to
make enough money as you're growing to support you no
matter where you go, so that I can afford that?
Is that? How am I posting? Think as a as
(48:07):
a fan because I want to go, But I'm like,
and if the people that you put in your videos
that make you look good and make you look nice
and brown and culture and in the streets, if they
can't afford it too, and certain only certain people, then
when you look in the crowd and you only see
certain whining, don't see white people. Yeah, but I'm telling y'all,
it's a lot to it because even when you think
(48:28):
about like you you might pay thirty five hundred dollars
for a sofa, you know, and yes you sit on
it every day or year. But are what we're saying
is that art in music is not as valuable as furniture.
What we do, what we all on this almost two
what three fourths of us do on this call, is
(48:50):
what we do. What is the value? What is the
value of it? What is the value of it? What
is the value of art? I just don't think that
I paid three hundred and fifty dollars to go see
Bruno Mars. My son love Bruno Mars, and I paid
three hundred and fifty. I didn't mind paying that, but
I will never ever pay twenty five hundred three. I
(49:11):
will never pay no meal attached. I will never I
will never pay that to my son to see Kindrick Lamar.
I spend six hundred dollars. Yeah, there's no in the
front row. Did you have front row with three fifty?
Did you have front row with six hundred? I have
front row at at three fifty. I was like on
the side, uh, I had front row there, But I
(49:32):
just I guess I won't see artists because I I
don't think everybody's gonna charge that much either, you know,
and it's probably you can do it at levels. Let's
just say, let's say you do a performance with an
orchestra at I don't know, um, Carnegie Hall or the
Lincoln Center like that. How much was Princeton's tickets? He
(49:54):
didn't he how much was his tickets? Still interesting? Like
forty seven dollars? Shut up, Jill, I'm serious, Like he
had he to me he did it the right way.
He did not. How did he do that? He made
a deal with he made some kind of deal with
(50:15):
whoever was promoting him, or he didn't allow them. So
that's the thing. To make the corporations pay the big
ticket and make your fans like if you feel I
get you, Asia, you feel like you're worth it, you are,
but just not for me. Don't let them. Don't let
the cost stuff it trickled down to the consumer or
the worker. The person should not It's kind of like
(50:35):
that situation where you know that the restaurants can pay
their servers a living wage, but it's up to you
as the consumer to then, you know, we all do tip.
I always tip. I believe in tipping, but but that
should the person's livelihood shouldn't be based on that. Corporations
are constantly throwing the cost of labor that is valuable
(50:59):
into the consumers, um lab when they should be paying
people fair, fair prices. Exactly if I always, I always tip,
and I always uh tip over what it what it
is because you've got people out here working hard. But
you gotta remember, even as an artist, your fans are
(51:19):
the ones that's keeping you going. That's the pote. Meanwhile,
it's a box full of nob nation folks at the show.
They ain't even paid because you know it, don't even pay.
They don't even pay. All of the rich people that
are coming to the show, all the rich and famous,
they're not paying. You're not paying that they're not paying.
(51:39):
Oh y'all just my brain. Oh I'm you leave it
to Prince to have the answer, because Prince printed also
made a whole lot of money before he had them
made the decision. And I think some tickets at the
Greek for like twenty five dollars a ticket, and he did,
um um, what do you call a residency? And I
(52:01):
think that that's a perfect way to continue your musical legacy. Yes,
that you people can get to you. Yeah, because otherwise
they can't. I can't imagine somebody a black family saying, oh,
I'm gonna take my family to see Beyonce at three
thousand dollars a ticket. Yeah, no, two parents, like three kids.
(52:23):
You know who else kind of does this model too?
Is a chance the wrapper. Yes, he does a lot
of work where he makes the kind of corporate overhead
pay for what he's doing. You know. It's but it
gets tricky also when you start messing around with the corporations.
The thing is that with the corporations, you know, I mean,
(52:44):
there's no way that you can streaming services. You're in
You're in there, honey, you're in Oh you're already tied
into it. This is the world that we live in.
But I can't lie to you. You know. It's that
that age old you know thing, How do I function
within this system in the most ethical way possible for
myself and what I want to do? And it goes
(53:08):
back to the original kind of advice that Stephanie Oh gosh,
my body is shaking said in the beginning, where she
was just like, listen, the machine is the machine, but
you have to be able to navigate that machine with
your own kind of compass and understand who you are
within it, use it for what you can get it
(53:29):
to do, for what you needed to accomplish for the moment,
but not allowing that to kind of define you to
where that becomes how you operate. And it's really difficult.
It is really difficult, which is why you being in
the space where you are right now is not to
be under celebrated. It should be celebrated to the highest
(53:49):
degree because it's not an easy thing for people to do. Yeah. Yeah,
more conversation after the break. I my little twenty three
(54:14):
years in this business. You can't stay lettle. That's not
a lettle. Well, you know, in comparison to you, my dear,
I can see how people can give up. I can
see how. I went to see a showcase last night
of talented young people. They put on the best show.
One of the young girls, I think she's like fifteen
(54:36):
years old. She sang at last with all the conviction
and sincerity that you could sing at last. She did that,
And then I say that, you know, there's different levels
of careers, if level is the right word, just just
different careers. And if you can make one doing something
that you love to do, that feels right for your soul,
(54:58):
truly and sincerely, even when nobody's around, and especially when
nobody's around. If you can create a career like that
for yourself, you have absolutely one. How do you forgive
those that attempted to stop you or diminish you or
(55:27):
stand in the way. How do you do that? And
if you do a lot of therapy and giving it
to God and taking my hands off of it, it's like, God,
it's too much for me to bear, and then go
talk to my therapist. That's what you have to have
to do. And then you still have to believe that
(55:48):
you're moving in the right direction for you. That's the
most important thing is to stay your course, because if
you get our course, you're doing what somebody else wants
you to do. And people will always say, well, she
didn't listen, she didn't do this. But I'm still here
and I'm still enjoying my life and living my life
(56:11):
on my own terms, and that's what I wanted. I'm
living my life and doing what I want to do
on my own terms, and that's so important. Thank you
so much. How can we continue to support you? Stephanie, like,
how do you How can we continue to love on you?
Everybody who's listening to just say a prayer for me,
(56:33):
Say a prayer for me. You know you want to
come to my show, Come to my show, but just
say a prayer for me, and remember what I You
know what I've said, and take it to heart. And
you can use me as an example. Because I never
wanted to be an artist that wound up broke, wound
(56:54):
up in a drughouse. I never wanted to be that
because I saw that, so I never so. I always
lived my life under the radar and was able to
take care of myself no matter what happened. And I
think that's important. It's not how well you live, it's
how long you live. Well, that's important. Bars can I
(57:17):
say something, Yes, I didn't get a chance to fangirl
on you earlier in the show properly, but I shoven
know that vocally you are just, oh my god, just
absolute perfection. The personality, the personality and how your vocal
(57:41):
performance it is just like all of the layers of it,
all of the feeling I don't even know. You know,
a lot of times we talk about as little girls
who we tried to emulate. And we don't talk enough
about how we all emulated you, how we all stood
in the mirror, we all, me and my step brother.
(58:03):
I want you to understand we were. I've been up
and I've been down in that I'm VORs right now.
I want to embarrass myself, but I'm like the times
that we stood in that mirror on our tippy toes, honey,
and my brother he's gay. We were giving full you know,
(58:25):
full you know, tow wig and everything. Okay, we were.
We were fully engaged and you know, so just to
just to have you here and talking to you and
just hearing your wisdom, I just want to make sure
that I give you your flowers. Obviously, Jill is and
gives flowers in the best way like she's She's so
(58:47):
amazingly talented at giving flowers. So mine are, you know,
a little bit disjunct. You know whatever I'm wraggoning mine
is a little raggedy. But I love you, I do,
oh my gosh. And I just to have what you
have done to preserve your spirit and your mind, your heart,
(59:08):
your soul and your craft is inspiring and it is
necessary and we will protect you at all costs. Oh,
thank you, thank you, thank you so much. It is
complete affirmation. This is a real three sixty for real.
(59:33):
Please continue to enjoy j Do Elda podcast. We have
conversations to spark conversation and action. It is an honor
to have this day. I hope you all feel the same.
(59:54):
Thank you so much, Thank you, love everybody making us cry?
How do you eat an elephant? One? By it time?
Hey listeners, it's Amber the producer here. We hope you
(01:00:15):
love miss Mills as much as we do. I mean,
of course you do. As you mentioned on the podcast,
The Legend is on tour this year. I'll drop a
link below in the show notes and that's it. Go
and see the legend that is Stephanie Mills. Hi. If
(01:00:45):
you have comments on something he said in this episode,
call eight six six Hey Jill, if you want to
add to this conversation, that's eight six six four three
nine five four five five. Don't forget to tell us
your name and the episode referring to you might just
hear your message on a future episode. Thank you for
(01:01:05):
listening to Jill Scott presents Jay dot Ill. The podcast
Jay dot Ill is a production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
© 2025 iHeartMedia, Inc.