January 28, 2025 • 32 mins
Akilah sits down with her producers, Dan and Elizabeth, for a check in on where the journey has taken them since airing the initial episodes. Though there hasn't been much movement from Boone County High School, they have heard some updates from local supporters. Additionally, the team shares an overview of what they plan to share in future episodes.
If you have a racist mascot at your high school or are an alumni of a high school with a racist mascot and want to share your own experience, please email us at [email protected].
We would love to talk to you!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
My own black a dollar has gone on overland I
don't know, I know, Ninth Planet Audio con we're over landing.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I was a lady rebbel, Like, what does that even be?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Any of the Boone County Rebels will stay?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
The Boone County Rebels with the image of right here
in black and white were friends.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Figures is a flag or mascot. Anytime you're trying to
mess with tradition, you get to be ready for its serious.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Backgrounds from Ninth Planet Audio. I'm Akhila Hughes and this
is Rebel Spirit New Year Update.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Okay, so we are all here together doing kind of
another check in talkback episode. The last time we did
this was right before the podcast came out, so just
kind of wanted to all get together again. Now that
all of our main episodes have come out, we're still
kind of doing some reporting and you know, following up
at the school. But now that everything is out, I'm
(01:12):
here with Dan, our producer, Akila, our host and fearless
leader of this. Yeah. So now that all the episodes
are out, I just kind of want to hear how
you're feeling with the response, kind of the the journey
of that and kind of reflecting back on you know,
now that everyone's heard everything, how does it feel.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, I mean it feels good. I think that, you know,
we've made something really impressive. And I it's not lost
on me that like this doesn't exist, you know what
I mean. Like it's not like we're doing the ninetieth
interrogation of a murder podcast. We're like actually doing the
work to lay the story of why these kinds of
(01:55):
schools exist, and you know, the uphill battle of trying
to get people to just be accepting and move forward.
So those sorts of things, like completely honestly are incredibly heartening,
and I think that, like I am just happy that
like this as a document exists, and I'm really proud
of what we've been able to do. Like I do
(02:16):
think that it's like necessary work, and so it's nice
to feel like the thing that you're working on matters,
and I feel like it does. So that's where I'm at.
But obviously the elephant in the room is you know,
Donald Trump was inaugurated. We are recording this on the
twenty third, so it's been a couple of days. He's
(02:37):
wasted no time, and of course, shock surprise, civil rights
are sort of under attack, and so I think that, like,
of course, that's top of mind for me as we're
you know, still in this still trying to tell the
story while also trying to make real change, and now
we have a much deeper hill to climb. And so
(03:01):
just with that, how are you guys feeling?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Very much same? I have thought a lot about the
last the tenth episode that came out was originally going
to come out on election Day, and we we put
it out a week later just because who was going
to listen to that during election day? And you know,
(03:25):
the final bit of that, you know, we kind of
present the kind of the larger story of revel Spirit
as that of the battle between you know, moving forward
and moving back, and you know, I can't when I'm
(03:45):
feeling low sometimes I feel like right now that battle
doesn't feel like one we're winning. Yeah, but it does
resonate as being the defining battle of right now. You know,
it's just uh, as you said, it's a little bit
(04:07):
more of an uphill battle than I think we thought
when we wrote those lines.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Definitely, definitely.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah. It also kind of has recently reminded me of
like the interview with Ronan Pharaoh and him kind of
talking about in the end. So much of kind of
what you know, keeps him going is like just wanting
to be a good person, like in the end of
all of this, and so there is I think kind
of that through line of just continuing on, which is
(04:38):
so hard to do, and even you know, I think
some of our other interviewees on our kind of pep
talk episode had the same thing of you know, time
marches on and you kind of have to to continue,
so kind of to that, I think, you know, a
lot of the questions we've kind of had from from
listeners and people who have heard all the episodes and
followed along is where things now? And I know we're
(05:01):
definitely gonna do a little bigger, deep dive into this,
but the specific one is like has the school responded?
Where are things at? And you know, the overarching thing
is like, no, not really, but if you kind of
want to, you know, talk a little bit about you know,
some of the reaction from the school, which is not much,
but also kind of you know locally what you've heard
(05:21):
or like heard from friends who are kind of there
with the show coming out.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Definitely, I mean, yeah, you're right, like Stacy Black, the
principal at Boone County High School, is staying mom. The
school board is absolutely not trying to be involved in
the fray. And you know, the most recent thing that
I've heard is that, you know, we had a person
on the board who had expressed at least interest in
(05:46):
getting this to a vote. They were expected to be
the board chair. I found out today that there was
a coup against them. They don't want to be on
the record doing a vote, you know what I mean,
because they would vote against it. And I think that,
you know, it's in many ways to me, just confirming cowardice.
So it's like, fine, you don't like you you have
(06:09):
these convictions, but you're too chicken shit to stand by
them publicly and put your face to just regressive thinking.
But I also think like there is you know, it's
a down moment. I think that, like I'm also biased.
I'm in Los Angeles. We have these fires right now,
so it's like there's a lot that is on my mind.
(06:33):
But with this project, because it is so personal, you know,
I think about the people who are there, who you know,
are still going to school there, who have to face
the kids there who maybe have parents who are deeply
anti anything inclusive. You know, I think about Miss Juneteenth,
(06:53):
who as a day job, was a DEI officer who
will probably lose her job and was standing in the
way of this progress. And I also just think, you know,
we touched on in a second ago, but it's like
the work continues, and so it's like, I think that
(07:14):
what I've heard more of frankly, and I think that
people people genuinely just talk to the people they're in
alignment with. So it's like, I think that we have
had the benefit of getting a lot of emails to
the Rebel Spirit email that are people who either grew
up in the area and moved away and were like, yeah, no,
I went there in the seventies and it was messed
up and I see that now, but also like I
(07:35):
tried to change it. These people are not going to change,
or people who grew up in areas that were very similar, right,
who did change and they were like, look, things are better,
and I'm glad that we did it, and it's so
important that you're telling the story. And so we have
that benefit. But you know, we also have some stuff
coming up that I think shows the other side who's
(07:56):
speaking to their allies against what we're trying to do.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah, I mean I just pulled up emails in terms
of just since the last episode, you know, I've reached
out to Stacy Black, the principal, three separate times, you know,
to no response, you know, just simply asking like, hey,
we would love if nothing else, we'd love an update
(08:20):
on the things that you told us over a year
ago were in motion. You know that we've never seen
in any minutes that we've never seen anywhere, you know,
the idea that there's a committee or some sort of
informal committee or something. You know, it's still so unclear,
but just asking for that or asking for you know,
(08:42):
just to talk, like we would just love to have
somebody to come forward on the record and nothing, nothing, nothing,
you know, just as like I try to write the
syrup e Ast emails I can in these situations and
and and nothing on any of them, you know, And
that's it's Yeah, it's frustrating. Yeah, it's frustrating because you want,
(09:10):
like all we want is to talk like.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Right exactly at the very least, like you literally can't.
You're not willing to have the conversation right of the
thing that you are so adamantly against R and it's like,
then are you against like I mean, like really, like
do you have courage in your convictions or not? Because
I just feel like it's really strange to me, I guess,
to have such strong feelings against it, but knowing that
(09:32):
it's wrong enough to know that you can't go on
the record saying so right or even off the right.
I mean that's the thing. Not even off the record
has been offered, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
And every communication is always offered as off and uh
then yeah, nothing, it's yeah, it's yeah, it's hard. And
right now it feels like, man, you're sticking your neck
way further out now, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Totally totally. I mean it feels like, you know, it's
so silly. But I used to joke that, like because
they were so in many ways regressive. I'm like, they're
probably gonna segregate the schools, and I'm like, now, not joking. Now,
I'm not joking because I think that they would be
willing to have that up for a vote before they'd
be willing to talk about changing a mascot. And what
(10:22):
does that say about where I'm from in about the country.
I think you know in a greater sense. And I
guess like something that I've been sort of just thinking
about is like, internationally, how small this must seem? Like
there are so many other places on the planet where
you know, nowhere is perfect. But it's like the fact
that we are still having these fights must seem so archaic.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, I mean, and just end it. Yeah, so much
research in the in those ten episodes was about the
fifties and the sixties and segregation and then the move
toward desegregation, and and and and it's just like, oh
(11:06):
that none of that is historical anymore, right, Like that's
all actually currently relevant information. Yeah. And yeah, I think
about some of the folks that we that we spoke with.
I'm unfortunately I'm blanking on her name, but the historian
from Denver who who was you know, a little bit
(11:26):
elderly and had been involved in the first bussing and
and and all of that, and just how right now
must feel to her, you know, to have seen as
much as she has seen in her time and to
then see it all start to roll back.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
And that was something we kind of saw more sort
of towards the end of our initial reporting period, is
seeing schools not only like not change the mascot, but
change school names back to you know, Confederate generals and
and sort of reverting back to some of those And
I did. We have gotten some really great emails and
(12:24):
examples sent into the Rebel Spirit Gmail. So for everyone
who has emailed us, we appreciate it. But I did
want to sort of highlight something interesting there. There's you
know a lot of people emailed about former mascots that
were like the Indians or even other rebels who have changed.
There's one that people should really look up from Abington,
Pennsylvania that were they were the Galloping Ghosts. I don't
(12:47):
know if we even sent this to Huge Plan, but
it's literally it's literally a ku Klux Klan member essentially,
like that is the mascot until the late eighties, it
literally was that and now they've changed. But the the
overwhelming kind of response for the emails is people whose
mascots have changed for the most part, like it's it
(13:08):
kind of you know, the the the amount of of
kind of pushback we've heard and and so much of
how difficult it is from from Boone County just does
not align with an with the evidence essentially of every
other school that has reached out, there's you know, one
school that was like the bullets uh in Gettysburg, which
(13:31):
they wanted to change, and and there were some really
interesting ones that have been you know sent to us.
So I I think too, I guess I'm kind of wondering.
I think you've been able to kind of see some
of these tekila, but just you know, seeing other people
who have done it in some of like those mascots,
like how does that kind of factor into to the
response and like just you know, other people's examples of
(13:52):
being able to make it happen.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, I mean it. The thing is, like I think
that that's a very energizing thing to receive this sorts
of emails because it's like it didn't the world didn't end,
you know, Like the way that they're acting in Boone
County is so dramatic. It's like if we changed this,
I mean, what would happen? And you know, like there
is just so much tied to what they perceive as
(14:16):
like their memories. Right, They're like I went to Boone
County and I was a rebel and if you change it,
that's no longer true. And I'm like that's not how
time works. Like we're not going back and accepting your memory.
It's like you were the rebels. That's fine, but like,
why can you not even imagine a future where someone
(14:37):
else isn't that mascot? Like it just doesn't or represented
by that mascot. It doesn't make any sense. And it's
like it just I think speaks to how small a
lot of the ideology is, and like, you know, there's
a lot of reasons for that. I try to have
empathy for the fact that like a lot of these
people have never gone anywhere, they've never met anyone who
is different than them. They you know, and that's by design,
(14:57):
and they've been you know, Kentucky's a really poor state.
It's not like there's a ton of opportunity there. And
so I think that like educationally, there's a lot of
opportunity to bring people in the twenty first century, but
I think politically there's a real concerted effort not to
you know, what would it mean if Kentucky was as
welcoming as you know, or Boone County even just like
(15:19):
as Kelvington or Cincinnati. You know, I think that they
have to hold on to something and I don't know
that there is a lot of positive stuff to hold
on to, so you know, they take what they can get.
But it is just wild because I went there, I
cheered for the rebels, I competed on behalf of the
(15:39):
rebels in all of these different events, and I sang
in the choir. You know, It's not like I'm not
aware of the fact that I was a rebel when
I went there. I'm just saying something better can come.
And so like that's what rubs me, is like, why
is it these people who are literally a decade from
their deathbed act in life acting like nothing's ever allowed
(16:02):
to change. I just think it's wild. I'm like, what's
the fear? And also like, what is your stake in it?
They don't care about you either way, Like the school
doesn't have alumni events. It's not like it is a
big community thing. I mean we went to homecoming, Like
I am an alum from the choir. I didn't receive
(16:23):
a single piece of mail saying come singing, oh God.
It seemed like anybody could have wandered in. And so
I just feel like it is this performative patriotism or
like allegiance to something that has really not been as
big of a factor. But if you have nothing else
going on in your life, this is a hill to
die on. And I'm just hopeful that, you know, maybe
(16:44):
at some point in my life people will choose better hills.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah. The other thing with homecoming and kind of speaks
large to a larger thing I feel like, is, yeah,
the only alumni and maybe there was like two or
three in the choir, we're seemingly people who still lived
there and never left. Like it feels like there's kind
of this element of if you leave, then we don't
like you anymore. Yeah, you know, Jay kind of talked
(17:08):
about that in the episode about BLDG of like, yeah,
but what you were looking for wasn't here, so you
left and that's okay. And he came back, and it
does feel like there is such a this idea that
you are an outsider now because you left and didn't
come back. But it's like it's your home and so
(17:30):
it feels very insular as well. I did want to
just highlight one email that we got from someone who
is an alumni in ninety five, which I'm going to
bring up a little bit later too, of that is
an interesting year, but for a.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Lot of reasons.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yeah. But also she reached out and you both worked
at Fazoli's, which is really cool.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, high stand up, So it's so cool.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
But you know, she's obviously older. She graduated in ninety
five and and she wrote out and was really supportive
of this, and she had known Sean and his brother
Dran and part of like knowing them was kind of
what she said started her on her anti racism journey
and like kind of opened her eyes to like seeing
that things weren't great. And you know, she said, like
(18:20):
if you ever want local support, I'll lend my voice
and kind of to that, I to anyone who has
We've had a lot of these types of emails. It's like,
just go for it, like yeah, exactly. Yeah, so kind
of you know, along those lines, like if you kind
of want to just say, if people do locally want
to like help right now, what are some things they
can do and just kind of you don't need us
(18:41):
to tell you to do so, like we do want
you to so if you kind of just a little
bit on that of like even now, what could be helpful?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, I mean I think the truth is bringing it
up at the board is something you can do every
single month and you don't have to talk for the
whole amount of time. You can literally just say I'm
an alumni Boone County High School. I graduated whatever year,
you know, ninety five, ninety six, anytime, and I support
(19:09):
looking into this because the reality is they're so scared
they won't even look into it anymore. And I think
that they need to see that people care about this.
I also think that, like, you know, something that I've
been doing and I don't know if I can actually
recommend it, but I'll tell you I've been in the
like Boone County Neighbors Facebook group just seeing what people
(19:33):
are talking about, and it's a lot of negativity. It's
a lot of people fighting with each other, it's a
lot of ideological difference. But what I've found is if
you push back even a little, if you even ask
a question, those people who are so loud and seemingly
overrepresented shut down. They know they don't have an argument.
(19:54):
You can literally just be like, I don't know, I
don't think we should deport all of our neighbors, and
then suddenly all of the people who agree with you
come out of the woodwork. To be like, yeah, I
felt that way, and I'm glad somebody said it, and
so I think that, like again, it really to me
just comes back to like the courage of your convictions,
Like if you're willing to say it publicly, and you
should be. I don't know why you wouldn't be, but
(20:15):
if you're willing to say it publicly, please do so.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, I mean, I think that that's the thing that
we've we've both been told directly and we've you know,
seen through through other means. But the idea that we
are outsiders quote unquote outsiders, right, and we're the only
ones that care about this, you know, is is what
(20:41):
they are using right now to not move it forward
as far as we know. You know that, and yeah
and I and Elizabeth you mentioned it before, but it's
like that the framing of you Akuila as an outsider
like makes me so furious because you aren't. You're from there,
(21:05):
you went to school there, you know, I mean, it
is what roy Wood Junior was like. Where you're from
is where you went to high school, your first kiss
and yeah, and first fight, right, It's like, but also
the love of place that you have for Florence is
(21:30):
the reason this exists, right, It's the reason why we
do this. It's not because you are some outsider looking
to stir up trouble, you know, because you disliked the
place and so you want to you know, make it
worse or whatever. It's because you care and you care
about the kids that are there now and the experience
(21:54):
that they are having and how it could be better.
And that's I think, you know what, and you when
you think about sort of civic pride, Like that's a
very civic, very proud thing to do to say, hey,
you know what, the folks that are there now, I'm
not there now because the opportunities weren't there for me,
(22:14):
But the folks that are there now it could be
better for them, and I would like to try to
make that better. Like that's a really beautiful thing. And
it really does make me really upset when I see
you sort of cast as an outsider. I mean, I'm
an outsider, like I'm from Chicago, right, Like, but you
(22:37):
are not right, And the idea that you can leave
a place and still care, you know, and leave a
place and still want better for it, right, that should
be celebrated.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Right. I mean, it's also that's the thing. It sets
a really bad example. I think it's like, to me,
a shameful point for the community to be so protective
of these symbols that they're like, well, if you don't
agree or you left, then like you obviously aren't from here,
or you don't you know, like you're saying you're coming
(23:13):
back to cause trouble. And I'm like, how many of
you have ever been to a board meeting?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, I mean, why.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Would I put in the effort to come and hurt
a place? Obviously if I was such a hater, I
would just never come back. Like you know what I mean,
that's what most people do when they hate a place,
is they never go back. Like we've all seen the
Lion king, like he came back. And so I'm just like,
I don't think I just it doesn't compute on any level.
(23:43):
But it's like it's it is seeing all of the
defensiveness in all the ways that they are just grasping
at straws to push out the progress and change, and
it's like, fine, she's not from here, or she doesn't
deserve to have a say because she left, or you know,
what she has to say must be biased in some way,
and I'm like, I don't know. I think I'm probably
(24:04):
more objective because I've seen more of the world. Yeah,
like if I had stayed, I imagine my life would
have turned out a lot different. And I also think
that like I would probably resent them a lot more.
I would probably resent And that's been my experience in
those Facebook groups is they really resent each other. They're
not proud of where they're from. They you know, a
(24:26):
lot of people join and say I'm new in town,
and they leave that group real quick. So I'm like,
I think it could be better here. As all I'm saying,
I think that you all could be real neighbors. I
think you could take pride in a school publicly and
put your chest out and say I'm proud of this
mascot instead of just tucking your tail and saying the
oldest school in this district doesn't get to have one.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
And so kind of wrapping things up, I do want
to I mentioned nineteen ninety five and it's something that
can truly be like a whole season and we've kind
of like talked about that, but if you dan just
briefly kind of want to touch on some of that
that we are going to kind of be looking at
even further and then also kind of touch on some
of what the continued reporting has been in terms of
(25:17):
foyer requests, and like briefly, you know, we're going to
do a couple more episodes like what is kind of
to come, you know, kind of the deep dive that
will eventually be here.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, definitely, So I mean on the on the on
the second thing first, you know, as as we have
expressed many times, like we have not heard from the
school or the district, no matter how many times we ask,
no about how nicely we ask, you know, whether we're
there in person, whether or not. And we finally got
(25:48):
to the point this probably October or so, where we decided,
you know what, there are other ways we can find
out what they're thinking, you know, and so along with
our researcher, Janis, we started filing foyer requests or open
records requests for the district and for the high school
(26:10):
and to find out, you know, what has been happening
kind of as we've been reporting what's been happening on
that side of things. And it's taken a while, but
and part of that is just with open records requests
you kind of get one little piece. A friend of
(26:31):
mine who does them a lot, described it as it's
like peeling an onion, you know, and you rarely get
the thing you want at the start, you know, but
you get a little hint of the thing that you want.
And we have a lot now and so we've been
that'll be kind of coming up in February will be
the results of all of that, which is significantly a
(26:54):
large amount of stuff. I printed it out the other
day and it's come on page is but uh damn,
but but yeah, it's exciting. And one of the sort
of weird side quests that came up out of that
was this year of nineteen ninety five, which you know,
kept popping up in all sorts of different of different ways,
(27:18):
and every time it would pop up, you know, again
sort of the onion thing, except this time you're like
looking at a different onion and you're like, what's that?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Like, what's that?
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Looks really big? What's happening there? And so we've also
been sort of looking into nineteen ninety five in Florence,
but then in all of Kentucky, where there was a
remarkable amount of stuff happening around rebel schools in and
around the whole state. And so that's been sort of
(27:46):
a like I said, it's definitely a side quest, like
my little link is well off into a forest on
that one. But but uh, but it's it's a lot
of very interesting stuff as well. So absolutely, yeah. And
it's it's funny because you know, in my various notes
(28:06):
to these these guys, as I've been I've been kind
of following this, it's like, I think this is a
we've got a good episode about nineteen ninety five, and
then it's like, actually, I think maybe it's two. And
then at some point it's like it's I think we
have a mini series here, and then finally it was like, no,
I think there's ten episodes. So yeah, hopefully we can
(28:27):
do those ten.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I mean, you know, just to sort of touch on
what Dan was saying too about nineteen ninety five, like
it is sort of its own onion, but it also
directly ties into what we are researching about why Boone
County is dying on the James Dan Hill. So like,
I think that what excites me and what we have
to look forward to and all of it, and what's
become even more relevant is the history here, and it's like,
(28:52):
you know, I'm on blue sky and everybody now is
having a conversation about civil rights because they are under
a tech. There are executive orders being repealed, you know,
law that we believed was settled will probably be challenged,
all of those things, and there is just sort of
a lack of education that people have about it. Like
(29:16):
I think that because you know, Martin Luther King has
always been seen as so long ago, and all the
footage is always played in black and white, and we're
always like, but then he died for our sins, like
he's Jesus, and now racism's dead. It's like people just
didn't ever see it clearly, and now we have to,
like we have to understand the moves that are being
made and why, and so that feels really relevant. Like
(29:39):
I personally have gone back to episode two several times
to be like, yeah, no, this is the timeline, like
fifty four kicks off where we are today, Like it's
it is like this defining moment and it's all the
same people, you know what I mean. It's the people
that never got fully shouted down who are now trying
to drag us back in time. And I think that
(30:00):
it's important for people to recognize that it's important to
see our place in that history. But I also just
think that like the overarching themes that we keep coming
back to, tradition, progress, high school, like it all matters.
It's all doing what you can where you are. And
(30:21):
I do think that, like it's going to be an
exhausting four years if we make it that long, and
so like you have to figure out how to be
effective where you are, and so like I don't know
all of it going forward is still that same mandate
to me, it's you know, to really dig deep and
to figure out what is true and not shy away
(30:45):
from telling that truth to whoever we have to, but
also being like precise, Like when they're talking about de Ei,
they're talking about civil rights now like at first maybe
they were upset because a black person got hired, but
now they don't want black people in the government. These
are the kind of thoughts that we need to be
honest and open about and see you know, the through lines,
(31:06):
and so yeah, I don't know, but the next episode
is yeah, with the Foyer requests, I can't wait. We
got some juicy shit in there, and I'm gonna be
honest about it.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Yeah, we're taking it back to the what is it like, emails, timelines, receipt.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, like.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
We have all of it. Yeah, We've got it all.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
They can't hid, they can't hide. We know what you said,
We know your code words.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Otherwise, just wanted to kind of give an update and
check in and thank you guys for hopping on. But
more to come.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Yeah, keep your head up. Rebel Spirit is a production
of ninth Planet Audio and association with iHeart Podcasts. Reporting
and writing by me Akila Hughes. I'm also an executive
producer and the host. Produced by Dan Sinker, edited by
Josie A zam Our. Assistant editor is Jennifer Dean. Music
(32:00):
composed by Charlie Sun, Sound design and mixing by Josie A.
Zahm Our. Production coordinator is Kyle Hinton. Our clearance coordinator
is Anna Sunenshine. Production accounting by Dill Pretzig. Additional research
support from Janie Dillard. Special thanks to Jay Becker and
the whole team at BLDG The Florence Yawls, Amber Hoffman
and Leslie Chambers. Executive producers for Ninth Planet Audio are
(32:23):
Elizabeth Baquett and Jimmy Miller.
My own black a dollar has gone on overland I
don't know, I know, Ninth Planet Audio con we're over landing.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I was a lady rebbel, Like, what does that even be?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Any of the Boone County Rebels will stay?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
The Boone County Rebels with the image of right here
in black and white were friends.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Figures is a flag or mascot. Anytime you're trying to
mess with tradition, you get to be ready for its serious.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Backgrounds from Ninth Planet Audio. I'm Akhila Hughes and this
is Rebel Spirit New Year Update.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Okay, so we are all here together doing kind of
another check in talkback episode. The last time we did
this was right before the podcast came out, so just
kind of wanted to all get together again. Now that
all of our main episodes have come out, we're still
kind of doing some reporting and you know, following up
at the school. But now that everything is out, I'm
(01:12):
here with Dan, our producer, Akila, our host and fearless
leader of this. Yeah. So now that all the episodes
are out, I just kind of want to hear how
you're feeling with the response, kind of the the journey
of that and kind of reflecting back on you know,
now that everyone's heard everything, how does it feel.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, I mean it feels good. I think that, you know,
we've made something really impressive. And I it's not lost
on me that like this doesn't exist, you know what
I mean. Like it's not like we're doing the ninetieth
interrogation of a murder podcast. We're like actually doing the
work to lay the story of why these kinds of
(01:55):
schools exist, and you know, the uphill battle of trying
to get people to just be accepting and move forward.
So those sorts of things, like completely honestly are incredibly heartening,
and I think that, like I am just happy that
like this as a document exists, and I'm really proud
of what we've been able to do. Like I do
(02:16):
think that it's like necessary work, and so it's nice
to feel like the thing that you're working on matters,
and I feel like it does. So that's where I'm at.
But obviously the elephant in the room is you know,
Donald Trump was inaugurated. We are recording this on the
twenty third, so it's been a couple of days. He's
(02:37):
wasted no time, and of course, shock surprise, civil rights
are sort of under attack, and so I think that, like,
of course, that's top of mind for me as we're
you know, still in this still trying to tell the
story while also trying to make real change, and now
we have a much deeper hill to climb. And so
(03:01):
just with that, how are you guys feeling?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Very much same? I have thought a lot about the
last the tenth episode that came out was originally going
to come out on election Day, and we we put
it out a week later just because who was going
to listen to that during election day? And you know,
(03:25):
the final bit of that, you know, we kind of
present the kind of the larger story of revel Spirit
as that of the battle between you know, moving forward
and moving back, and you know, I can't when I'm
(03:45):
feeling low sometimes I feel like right now that battle
doesn't feel like one we're winning. Yeah, but it does
resonate as being the defining battle of right now. You know,
it's just uh, as you said, it's a little bit
(04:07):
more of an uphill battle than I think we thought
when we wrote those lines.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Definitely, definitely.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah. It also kind of has recently reminded me of
like the interview with Ronan Pharaoh and him kind of
talking about in the end. So much of kind of
what you know, keeps him going is like just wanting
to be a good person, like in the end of
all of this, and so there is I think kind
of that through line of just continuing on, which is
(04:38):
so hard to do, and even you know, I think
some of our other interviewees on our kind of pep
talk episode had the same thing of you know, time
marches on and you kind of have to to continue,
so kind of to that, I think, you know, a
lot of the questions we've kind of had from from
listeners and people who have heard all the episodes and
followed along is where things now? And I know we're
(05:01):
definitely gonna do a little bigger, deep dive into this,
but the specific one is like has the school responded?
Where are things at? And you know, the overarching thing
is like, no, not really, but if you kind of
want to, you know, talk a little bit about you know,
some of the reaction from the school, which is not much,
but also kind of you know locally what you've heard
(05:21):
or like heard from friends who are kind of there
with the show coming out.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Definitely, I mean, yeah, you're right, like Stacy Black, the
principal at Boone County High School, is staying mom. The
school board is absolutely not trying to be involved in
the fray. And you know, the most recent thing that
I've heard is that, you know, we had a person
on the board who had expressed at least interest in
(05:46):
getting this to a vote. They were expected to be
the board chair. I found out today that there was
a coup against them. They don't want to be on
the record doing a vote, you know what I mean,
because they would vote against it. And I think that,
you know, it's in many ways to me, just confirming cowardice.
So it's like, fine, you don't like you you have
(06:09):
these convictions, but you're too chicken shit to stand by
them publicly and put your face to just regressive thinking.
But I also think like there is you know, it's
a down moment. I think that, like I'm also biased.
I'm in Los Angeles. We have these fires right now,
so it's like there's a lot that is on my mind.
(06:33):
But with this project, because it is so personal, you know,
I think about the people who are there, who you know,
are still going to school there, who have to face
the kids there who maybe have parents who are deeply
anti anything inclusive. You know, I think about Miss Juneteenth,
(06:53):
who as a day job, was a DEI officer who
will probably lose her job and was standing in the
way of this progress. And I also just think, you know,
we touched on in a second ago, but it's like
the work continues, and so it's like, I think that
(07:14):
what I've heard more of frankly, and I think that
people people genuinely just talk to the people they're in
alignment with. So it's like, I think that we have
had the benefit of getting a lot of emails to
the Rebel Spirit email that are people who either grew
up in the area and moved away and were like, yeah, no,
I went there in the seventies and it was messed
up and I see that now, but also like I
(07:35):
tried to change it. These people are not going to change,
or people who grew up in areas that were very similar, right,
who did change and they were like, look, things are better,
and I'm glad that we did it, and it's so
important that you're telling the story. And so we have
that benefit. But you know, we also have some stuff
coming up that I think shows the other side who's
(07:56):
speaking to their allies against what we're trying to do.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah, I mean I just pulled up emails in terms
of just since the last episode, you know, I've reached
out to Stacy Black, the principal, three separate times, you know,
to no response, you know, just simply asking like, hey,
we would love if nothing else, we'd love an update
(08:20):
on the things that you told us over a year
ago were in motion. You know that we've never seen
in any minutes that we've never seen anywhere, you know,
the idea that there's a committee or some sort of
informal committee or something. You know, it's still so unclear,
but just asking for that or asking for you know,
(08:42):
just to talk, like we would just love to have
somebody to come forward on the record and nothing, nothing, nothing,
you know, just as like I try to write the
syrup e Ast emails I can in these situations and
and and nothing on any of them, you know, And
that's it's Yeah, it's frustrating. Yeah, it's frustrating because you want,
(09:10):
like all we want is to talk like.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Right exactly at the very least, like you literally can't.
You're not willing to have the conversation right of the
thing that you are so adamantly against R and it's like,
then are you against like I mean, like really, like
do you have courage in your convictions or not? Because
I just feel like it's really strange to me, I guess,
to have such strong feelings against it, but knowing that
(09:32):
it's wrong enough to know that you can't go on
the record saying so right or even off the right.
I mean that's the thing. Not even off the record
has been offered, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
And every communication is always offered as off and uh
then yeah, nothing, it's yeah, it's yeah, it's hard. And
right now it feels like, man, you're sticking your neck
way further out now, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Totally totally. I mean it feels like, you know, it's
so silly. But I used to joke that, like because
they were so in many ways regressive. I'm like, they're
probably gonna segregate the schools, and I'm like, now, not joking. Now,
I'm not joking because I think that they would be
willing to have that up for a vote before they'd
be willing to talk about changing a mascot. And what
(10:22):
does that say about where I'm from in about the country.
I think you know in a greater sense. And I
guess like something that I've been sort of just thinking
about is like, internationally, how small this must seem? Like
there are so many other places on the planet where
you know, nowhere is perfect. But it's like the fact
that we are still having these fights must seem so archaic.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, I mean, and just end it. Yeah, so much
research in the in those ten episodes was about the
fifties and the sixties and segregation and then the move
toward desegregation, and and and and it's just like, oh
(11:06):
that none of that is historical anymore, right, Like that's
all actually currently relevant information. Yeah. And yeah, I think
about some of the folks that we that we spoke with.
I'm unfortunately I'm blanking on her name, but the historian
from Denver who who was you know, a little bit
(11:26):
elderly and had been involved in the first bussing and
and and all of that, and just how right now
must feel to her, you know, to have seen as
much as she has seen in her time and to
then see it all start to roll back.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
And that was something we kind of saw more sort
of towards the end of our initial reporting period, is
seeing schools not only like not change the mascot, but
change school names back to you know, Confederate generals and
and sort of reverting back to some of those And
I did. We have gotten some really great emails and
(12:24):
examples sent into the Rebel Spirit Gmail. So for everyone
who has emailed us, we appreciate it. But I did
want to sort of highlight something interesting there. There's you
know a lot of people emailed about former mascots that
were like the Indians or even other rebels who have changed.
There's one that people should really look up from Abington,
Pennsylvania that were they were the Galloping Ghosts. I don't
(12:47):
know if we even sent this to Huge Plan, but
it's literally it's literally a ku Klux Klan member essentially,
like that is the mascot until the late eighties, it
literally was that and now they've changed. But the the
overwhelming kind of response for the emails is people whose
mascots have changed for the most part, like it's it
(13:08):
kind of you know, the the the amount of of
kind of pushback we've heard and and so much of
how difficult it is from from Boone County just does
not align with an with the evidence essentially of every
other school that has reached out, there's you know, one
school that was like the bullets uh in Gettysburg, which
(13:31):
they wanted to change, and and there were some really
interesting ones that have been you know sent to us.
So I I think too, I guess I'm kind of wondering.
I think you've been able to kind of see some
of these tekila, but just you know, seeing other people
who have done it in some of like those mascots,
like how does that kind of factor into to the
response and like just you know, other people's examples of
(13:52):
being able to make it happen.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, I mean it. The thing is, like I think
that that's a very energizing thing to receive this sorts
of emails because it's like it didn't the world didn't end,
you know, Like the way that they're acting in Boone
County is so dramatic. It's like if we changed this,
I mean, what would happen? And you know, like there
is just so much tied to what they perceive as
(14:16):
like their memories. Right, They're like I went to Boone
County and I was a rebel and if you change it,
that's no longer true. And I'm like that's not how
time works. Like we're not going back and accepting your memory.
It's like you were the rebels. That's fine, but like,
why can you not even imagine a future where someone
(14:37):
else isn't that mascot? Like it just doesn't or represented
by that mascot. It doesn't make any sense. And it's
like it just I think speaks to how small a
lot of the ideology is, and like, you know, there's
a lot of reasons for that. I try to have
empathy for the fact that like a lot of these
people have never gone anywhere, they've never met anyone who
is different than them. They you know, and that's by design,
(14:57):
and they've been you know, Kentucky's a really poor state.
It's not like there's a ton of opportunity there. And
so I think that like educationally, there's a lot of
opportunity to bring people in the twenty first century, but
I think politically there's a real concerted effort not to
you know, what would it mean if Kentucky was as
welcoming as you know, or Boone County even just like
(15:19):
as Kelvington or Cincinnati. You know, I think that they
have to hold on to something and I don't know
that there is a lot of positive stuff to hold
on to, so you know, they take what they can get.
But it is just wild because I went there, I
cheered for the rebels, I competed on behalf of the
(15:39):
rebels in all of these different events, and I sang
in the choir. You know, It's not like I'm not
aware of the fact that I was a rebel when
I went there. I'm just saying something better can come.
And so like that's what rubs me, is like, why
is it these people who are literally a decade from
their deathbed act in life acting like nothing's ever allowed
(16:02):
to change. I just think it's wild. I'm like, what's
the fear? And also like, what is your stake in it?
They don't care about you either way, Like the school
doesn't have alumni events. It's not like it is a
big community thing. I mean we went to homecoming, Like
I am an alum from the choir. I didn't receive
(16:23):
a single piece of mail saying come singing, oh God.
It seemed like anybody could have wandered in. And so
I just feel like it is this performative patriotism or
like allegiance to something that has really not been as
big of a factor. But if you have nothing else
going on in your life, this is a hill to
die on. And I'm just hopeful that, you know, maybe
(16:44):
at some point in my life people will choose better hills.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah. The other thing with homecoming and kind of speaks
large to a larger thing I feel like, is, yeah,
the only alumni and maybe there was like two or
three in the choir, we're seemingly people who still lived
there and never left. Like it feels like there's kind
of this element of if you leave, then we don't
like you anymore. Yeah, you know, Jay kind of talked
(17:08):
about that in the episode about BLDG of like, yeah,
but what you were looking for wasn't here, so you
left and that's okay. And he came back, and it
does feel like there is such a this idea that
you are an outsider now because you left and didn't
come back. But it's like it's your home and so
(17:30):
it feels very insular as well. I did want to
just highlight one email that we got from someone who
is an alumni in ninety five, which I'm going to
bring up a little bit later too, of that is
an interesting year, but for a.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Lot of reasons.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yeah. But also she reached out and you both worked
at Fazoli's, which is really cool.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, high stand up, So it's so cool.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
But you know, she's obviously older. She graduated in ninety
five and and she wrote out and was really supportive
of this, and she had known Sean and his brother
Dran and part of like knowing them was kind of
what she said started her on her anti racism journey
and like kind of opened her eyes to like seeing
that things weren't great. And you know, she said, like
(18:20):
if you ever want local support, I'll lend my voice
and kind of to that, I to anyone who has
We've had a lot of these types of emails. It's like,
just go for it, like yeah, exactly. Yeah, so kind
of you know, along those lines, like if you kind
of want to just say, if people do locally want
to like help right now, what are some things they
can do and just kind of you don't need us
(18:41):
to tell you to do so, like we do want
you to so if you kind of just a little
bit on that of like even now, what could be helpful?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, I mean I think the truth is bringing it
up at the board is something you can do every
single month and you don't have to talk for the
whole amount of time. You can literally just say I'm
an alumni Boone County High School. I graduated whatever year,
you know, ninety five, ninety six, anytime, and I support
(19:09):
looking into this because the reality is they're so scared
they won't even look into it anymore. And I think
that they need to see that people care about this.
I also think that, like, you know, something that I've
been doing and I don't know if I can actually
recommend it, but I'll tell you I've been in the
like Boone County Neighbors Facebook group just seeing what people
(19:33):
are talking about, and it's a lot of negativity. It's
a lot of people fighting with each other, it's a
lot of ideological difference. But what I've found is if
you push back even a little, if you even ask
a question, those people who are so loud and seemingly
overrepresented shut down. They know they don't have an argument.
(19:54):
You can literally just be like, I don't know, I
don't think we should deport all of our neighbors, and
then suddenly all of the people who agree with you
come out of the woodwork. To be like, yeah, I
felt that way, and I'm glad somebody said it, and
so I think that, like again, it really to me
just comes back to like the courage of your convictions,
Like if you're willing to say it publicly, and you
should be. I don't know why you wouldn't be, but
(20:15):
if you're willing to say it publicly, please do so.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, I mean, I think that that's the thing that
we've we've both been told directly and we've you know,
seen through through other means. But the idea that we
are outsiders quote unquote outsiders, right, and we're the only
ones that care about this, you know, is is what
(20:41):
they are using right now to not move it forward
as far as we know. You know that, and yeah
and I and Elizabeth you mentioned it before, but it's
like that the framing of you Akuila as an outsider
like makes me so furious because you aren't. You're from there,
(21:05):
you went to school there, you know, I mean, it
is what roy Wood Junior was like. Where you're from
is where you went to high school, your first kiss
and yeah, and first fight, right, It's like, but also
the love of place that you have for Florence is
(21:30):
the reason this exists, right, It's the reason why we
do this. It's not because you are some outsider looking
to stir up trouble, you know, because you disliked the
place and so you want to you know, make it
worse or whatever. It's because you care and you care
about the kids that are there now and the experience
(21:54):
that they are having and how it could be better.
And that's I think, you know what, and you when
you think about sort of civic pride, Like that's a
very civic, very proud thing to do to say, hey,
you know what, the folks that are there now, I'm
not there now because the opportunities weren't there for me,
(22:14):
But the folks that are there now it could be
better for them, and I would like to try to
make that better. Like that's a really beautiful thing. And
it really does make me really upset when I see
you sort of cast as an outsider. I mean, I'm
an outsider, like I'm from Chicago, right, Like, but you
(22:37):
are not right, And the idea that you can leave
a place and still care, you know, and leave a
place and still want better for it, right, that should
be celebrated.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Right. I mean, it's also that's the thing. It sets
a really bad example. I think it's like, to me,
a shameful point for the community to be so protective
of these symbols that they're like, well, if you don't
agree or you left, then like you obviously aren't from here,
or you don't you know, like you're saying you're coming
(23:13):
back to cause trouble. And I'm like, how many of
you have ever been to a board meeting?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, I mean, why.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Would I put in the effort to come and hurt
a place? Obviously if I was such a hater, I
would just never come back. Like you know what I mean,
that's what most people do when they hate a place,
is they never go back. Like we've all seen the
Lion king, like he came back. And so I'm just like,
I don't think I just it doesn't compute on any level.
(23:43):
But it's like it's it is seeing all of the
defensiveness in all the ways that they are just grasping
at straws to push out the progress and change, and
it's like, fine, she's not from here, or she doesn't
deserve to have a say because she left, or you know,
what she has to say must be biased in some way,
and I'm like, I don't know. I think I'm probably
(24:04):
more objective because I've seen more of the world. Yeah,
like if I had stayed, I imagine my life would
have turned out a lot different. And I also think
that like I would probably resent them a lot more.
I would probably resent And that's been my experience in
those Facebook groups is they really resent each other. They're
not proud of where they're from. They you know, a
(24:26):
lot of people join and say I'm new in town,
and they leave that group real quick. So I'm like,
I think it could be better here. As all I'm saying,
I think that you all could be real neighbors. I
think you could take pride in a school publicly and
put your chest out and say I'm proud of this
mascot instead of just tucking your tail and saying the
oldest school in this district doesn't get to have one.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
And so kind of wrapping things up, I do want
to I mentioned nineteen ninety five and it's something that
can truly be like a whole season and we've kind
of like talked about that, but if you dan just
briefly kind of want to touch on some of that
that we are going to kind of be looking at
even further and then also kind of touch on some
of what the continued reporting has been in terms of
(25:17):
foyer requests, and like briefly, you know, we're going to
do a couple more episodes like what is kind of
to come, you know, kind of the deep dive that
will eventually be here.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, definitely, So I mean on the on the on
the second thing first, you know, as as we have
expressed many times, like we have not heard from the
school or the district, no matter how many times we ask,
no about how nicely we ask, you know, whether we're
there in person, whether or not. And we finally got
(25:48):
to the point this probably October or so, where we decided,
you know what, there are other ways we can find
out what they're thinking, you know, and so along with
our researcher, Janis, we started filing foyer requests or open
records requests for the district and for the high school
(26:10):
and to find out, you know, what has been happening
kind of as we've been reporting what's been happening on
that side of things. And it's taken a while, but
and part of that is just with open records requests
you kind of get one little piece. A friend of
(26:31):
mine who does them a lot, described it as it's
like peeling an onion, you know, and you rarely get
the thing you want at the start, you know, but
you get a little hint of the thing that you want.
And we have a lot now and so we've been
that'll be kind of coming up in February will be
the results of all of that, which is significantly a
(26:54):
large amount of stuff. I printed it out the other
day and it's come on page is but uh damn,
but but yeah, it's exciting. And one of the sort
of weird side quests that came up out of that
was this year of nineteen ninety five, which you know,
kept popping up in all sorts of different of different ways,
(27:18):
and every time it would pop up, you know, again
sort of the onion thing, except this time you're like
looking at a different onion and you're like, what's that?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Like, what's that?
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Looks really big? What's happening there? And so we've also
been sort of looking into nineteen ninety five in Florence,
but then in all of Kentucky, where there was a
remarkable amount of stuff happening around rebel schools in and
around the whole state. And so that's been sort of
(27:46):
a like I said, it's definitely a side quest, like
my little link is well off into a forest on
that one. But but uh, but it's it's a lot
of very interesting stuff as well. So absolutely, yeah. And
it's it's funny because you know, in my various notes
(28:06):
to these these guys, as I've been I've been kind
of following this, it's like, I think this is a
we've got a good episode about nineteen ninety five, and
then it's like, actually, I think maybe it's two. And
then at some point it's like it's I think we
have a mini series here, and then finally it was like, no,
I think there's ten episodes. So yeah, hopefully we can
(28:27):
do those ten.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I mean, you know, just to sort of touch on
what Dan was saying too about nineteen ninety five, like
it is sort of its own onion, but it also
directly ties into what we are researching about why Boone
County is dying on the James Dan Hill. So like,
I think that what excites me and what we have
to look forward to and all of it, and what's
become even more relevant is the history here, and it's like,
(28:52):
you know, I'm on blue sky and everybody now is
having a conversation about civil rights because they are under
a tech. There are executive orders being repealed, you know,
law that we believed was settled will probably be challenged,
all of those things, and there is just sort of
a lack of education that people have about it. Like
(29:16):
I think that because you know, Martin Luther King has
always been seen as so long ago, and all the
footage is always played in black and white, and we're
always like, but then he died for our sins, like
he's Jesus, and now racism's dead. It's like people just
didn't ever see it clearly, and now we have to,
like we have to understand the moves that are being
made and why, and so that feels really relevant. Like
(29:39):
I personally have gone back to episode two several times
to be like, yeah, no, this is the timeline, like
fifty four kicks off where we are today, Like it's
it is like this defining moment and it's all the
same people, you know what I mean. It's the people
that never got fully shouted down who are now trying
to drag us back in time. And I think that
(30:00):
it's important for people to recognize that it's important to
see our place in that history. But I also just
think that like the overarching themes that we keep coming
back to, tradition, progress, high school, like it all matters.
It's all doing what you can where you are. And
(30:21):
I do think that, like it's going to be an
exhausting four years if we make it that long, and
so like you have to figure out how to be
effective where you are, and so like I don't know
all of it going forward is still that same mandate
to me, it's you know, to really dig deep and
to figure out what is true and not shy away
(30:45):
from telling that truth to whoever we have to, but
also being like precise, Like when they're talking about de Ei,
they're talking about civil rights now like at first maybe
they were upset because a black person got hired, but
now they don't want black people in the government. These
are the kind of thoughts that we need to be
honest and open about and see you know, the through lines,
(31:06):
and so yeah, I don't know, but the next episode
is yeah, with the Foyer requests, I can't wait. We
got some juicy shit in there, and I'm gonna be
honest about it.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Yeah, we're taking it back to the what is it like, emails, timelines, receipt.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, like.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
We have all of it. Yeah, We've got it all.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
They can't hid, they can't hide. We know what you said,
We know your code words.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Otherwise, just wanted to kind of give an update and
check in and thank you guys for hopping on. But
more to come.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Yeah, keep your head up. Rebel Spirit is a production
of ninth Planet Audio and association with iHeart Podcasts. Reporting
and writing by me Akila Hughes. I'm also an executive
producer and the host. Produced by Dan Sinker, edited by
Josie A zam Our. Assistant editor is Jennifer Dean. Music
(32:00):
composed by Charlie Sun, Sound design and mixing by Josie A.
Zahm Our. Production coordinator is Kyle Hinton. Our clearance coordinator
is Anna Sunenshine. Production accounting by Dill Pretzig. Additional research
support from Janie Dillard. Special thanks to Jay Becker and
the whole team at BLDG The Florence Yawls, Amber Hoffman
and Leslie Chambers. Executive producers for Ninth Planet Audio are
(32:23):
Elizabeth Baquett and Jimmy Miller.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
© 2025 iHeartMedia, Inc.