May 12, 2025 • 36 mins
On this episode of the Giants Huddle podcast, John Schmeelk is joined by ESPN’s, Dan Orlovsky, to discuss the play of Jaxson Dart, his experience at Ole Miss, and how he can develop this year.
:00 - Evaluating the quarterback position
6:11 - Jaxson Dart’s tape
14:30 - Playing under center
19:48 - Ole Miss offense
26:00 - Developing in the league
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants hut.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Let's go, Let's go Giants, the Giants moubul give me
some job.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Part of the Giants Podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Let's roll.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, brought
to you by Citizens Official Bank of the Giants. We
continue our look at the Giants draft glass with a
big focus on Jackson Dart and all the fun and
excitement that comes with a quarterback uh that the Giants
hope to develop into the eventual starter. We're coming to
you from the Hackensack Marine Healths Podcast studio. Keep getting Better.
So I've been trying to talk to as many quarterbacks
(00:32):
as we can. Have you even watched them.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Go back.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Phil Simms before the draft actually gave us a nice
spiel on Jackson Dart, so you can get that from
him before the draft. And then after the draft. We
talked to Chase Daniel, go check that out. We talked
to Kurt Warner, go check that out.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I think just.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Really great insight into the quarterback position, what the guys
have to do to get better and develop at the
next level. Without further ado, here's our guest Dan Roloski,
and now we welcome in the one and only Dan Orlosky.
You can see him on and all the other million
media things Dan is doing these days.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
It's good. It's been a while, man. Good to talk
to you.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
How are you, Yeah, good to talk to you. Man.
I'm doing great, uh, you know, coming off a couple
of weeks ago at the draft and obviously your guys
had a great one, hopeful one, let me put it
that way. So but doing very well. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Now, Dan has been very loyal to us.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
We had Dan on before I think it was before
you even signed out on the ESPN right back in
the day.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
We appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
And by the way, congratulations on all your success man.
You know, I think from the outside looking in, people
can tell that you work hard at it and that
you put the work in, and I think, quite frankly,
that's why you've had the success that you've had.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Thank you. Man. No, it's a it's a calling Carter's mind,
you know. It's it's become a thing where I am
I am who I am, and I don't know how
not to work hard. I'm thankful for that, and you know,
very very fortunate. I've had a lot of open doors
for me and and been ready for him and you know,
just just getting going. I very much so enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
One fun question for you before you get going here,
how long did it take you to figure out how
to use the VR headset controller thing?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah? Realistically like fifteen to twenty minutes.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Oh no, that's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I'm pressed. Yeah. Yeah, I had my kids have one
at the house. I've probably used that like twice and honestly,
who were three minutes into it? I was like, this
is too much for me. I almost got wheezy, you know,
using the one at the house. Fuck Andrew Hawkins, it's
part of he's one of the owners of the company.
Brought it let's call it a year and a half
(02:27):
ago and he's like, I think this would be cool
and I was like, yeah, but it feels like a lot.
And then I was like, you got to cut the
fat off of it. And he brought it in maybe
a year ago. Again he's like, what do you think
We've refined a little bit and I was like, it's
it's better, you know, it just needs to advance and
again be a little bit simpler with the execution. And
then he brought it in kind of the early last
(02:48):
season and I was like, this is this is actually
really sick and so we and I just told him
we were talking about I said, listen, let's just do it,
like we got to trust me. Let's just do it.
If it's a disaster, it's a disaster. But we got
a shoot and uh, you know, he expedited some of
the trigger points of the joysticks for me, and you know,
(03:09):
I tried to keep it somewhat simple throughout that process
of executing it, and uh, it was fifteen twenty minutes
in practicing. It came forty minutes before show, and I
was like, dude, let's just do it right now, like
let's and we taped the first one, like let's just
do it and figure it out. And we did, and
it's it's kind of taken off. It's been cool. See.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I think that's a good place to start, right because
I think what you're trying to show with the VR
headset is what the quarterback's looking at and what he's seeing.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah, and for me, especially not having played the position,
but I know I had curR won around last week
and he said for him, it's hard too. I think
one of the toughest things on this planet to do
is evaluate college quarterbacks and figure out how they're going
to play in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
It's almost a different game.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
You might know what the play is supposed to do,
but you don't know how he's being coached on it,
what the coach is telling him to do, how he's
supposed to read it. So let's start there, Dan, how
do you try to figure that part of the evaluation
out with college quarterbacks and college tips without access to
the player and the coach to find out what he's
being taught to do on certain plays.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, it's different than any other position. So every other position,
and mainly the ones that are drafted early, size, speed, strength,
power matter the most. You know, big, fast, powerful, strong.
If I'm taking a defensive end at the third position,
I want a guy that's six foot four, two hundred
and fifty pounds, runs four to four jumps to the gym,
and has the quickness of Alan Iverson. And so when
(04:32):
you're really like going into the quarterback, I think the
physical matters a little bit more than let's say twenty
years ago, but it's not the most important stuff, and
you do have to have some physical qualities to be
an early round draft pick and then to have the
chance to go be really good to great in the NFL.
But those are really the secondary elements. The primary elements
(04:56):
are so much more, you know what we say, the
mind the neck up. And so I would tell you
that the number one thing just af tape because I
don't get to sit and evaluate personality. The number one
thing off tape that I look at is what do
you do in moments of panic? Because I really believe
(05:16):
that is a line of demarcation between can you play
or not? And then after if you can, then there's
different levels and peers to Okay, he's really good or
that's the thing that holds a bauck or he's great.
What are you doing moments? Because that's real life playing
quarterback in the NFL, and in moments of panic can
be you know, the answer could be, well, you know,
(05:37):
in moments of panic, he's instinctually he's unbelievable, or he's
got this athleticism you know that allows him to get
out of those moments, or is decision making never blinked,
or he's you know, able to take off as a runner.
And so like what you do consistently and those moments
of panic is my favorite thing to try and watch
(05:59):
on tape with the guy, because if you can handle
those moments and you've got skill talent wise to handle
those moments and do good with a decision or a
throw or a movement or an escape, that's carry over.
Like that's stuff that carries over to the next level.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
What were the positives from Jackson Dart that you liked
in those moments?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
John that was my favorite quality of him, You know,
I when I watched his tape and I go back
to this, this was probably the moment for me when
it came to watching quarterbacks that I fell in love
with that trade. I remember watching Joe Burrow and I
called LSU games. I'd seen him in real person. I'd
(06:48):
gone and called the National Title game in person. And
I remember watching a game versus O miss and he
made he had pressure an unblocked guy, or and he
made a subtle movement in the and it came to
this moment where in a brink of an eye he
could take a sack. It was gonna be a sack bumble,
(07:08):
maybe throw the ball into the coverage, take off and
run for a yard. Just panic and you just saw
this very calm dump off to a back that was
like four yards away from him, and I was like,
that's it, Like, that's that's it right there, and I'll
go back to Jaden Daniels last year, like Jaden had
that same stuff that he just never in those moments
(07:31):
to panic. It felt like nine and a half out
of ten times the right decision, not a good decision,
the right decision was made. And I felt that way
about Jackson. I don't feel maybe he was eight or
nine out of ten times, you know, doing the right thing.
It wasn't the level of Joe and Jaden, but I
(07:52):
was watching going, man, he just doesn't panic with the ball.
He just doesn't panic with the ball. And that was
the quality that made me really, you know, I have
my notes right in front of me every game I studied.
I liked that more and more. I liked it more
and more and more and more. And so that was
the quality that got me a little bit more like wait, wait, wait,
(08:12):
wait wait wait. I think I like this guy more
than I thought I would have. And I like this
guy more than maybe some other people do.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
And I think a big part of that Dan I
thought his ability to consistently step up in the pocket
was huge, you.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Know, the strongest in the pocket. I don't mean to
touch off.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
He was.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
He's the guy that is in this class coming out.
He was the strongest in the pocket. And that means
a couple of different things, like when like my one
of my favorite qualities and I think it stands the
test of time, and some guys get away with it
is when a quarterback can move in the pocket and
still remain somewhat visible of what's going on downfield. It's
(08:51):
not a blacker or white takeoff and run or not,
but still feel like what's going on downfield more often
than not, but not risk the ball. And if you
see like it is an old school fundamental thing that
so often he moves in the pocket and there's the
two hands on the ball. It's swiping across his chest
(09:11):
and you see guys pulling at him or at the ball,
and he stays strong in there. And also and sometimes
he takes off and runs because he sees the sea
him and goes or sees I don't like anything go
And then sometimes you can see him like his moving
take a little cross or take a little and take
a little shallow. And so that was probably my second
favorite thing I did to tape the night of the draft.
(09:32):
That's his second, my second favorite quality of his.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
All right, let me take the other side of this,
and this is probably not dart related, but I'm just interested.
What are the big red flags for you for what
you don't want a quarterback to do when he gets
into those pressure, panicky type of situations.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, so it's a little bit similar to Drake may
for me last year. Lazy feet. You know, some guys
that are just very naturally athletically gifted, they don't have
to hone in specifically early in their life on basics
and fundamentals and technique. And I always say this to people. John,
(10:10):
you know, so you've been playing the position. Let's let's
live in the world where these guys and Jackson's been
playing quarterback for ten years. That's ten years of bad habits.
So you're not erasing those in you know, a two
month span leading up into the NFL draft, and so
it just takes that that's when he gets lazy feet.
(10:30):
If you go to the first drive of the Georgia game,
there is a little bit of unblocked pressure, he gets
lazy feet. And when I mean lazy feet. Sometimes it's
like this. Jordan Love has this too, where it's like
a hoppy you know where you know, I always say,
if you can almost think of a baseball pitcher getting
(10:50):
to the top of their wind up and here comes
the sink. It's a little bit of a sink, and
here comes a forcing fastball. You know. Jackson has that
very much, so consistently, and then he has plays where
like why do you look like you're like, you don't
know what's going on, and so there's that hop light
on your feet. I don't necessarily know what I'm looking at,
(11:12):
and so it's like this lazy feet, and it creates
issues for him. Sometimes he misses a read, sometimes he
misses a throw. And again you go back to the
start of the Georgia game. It's the right read, he
sees it, it comes out on time, but he's got
these lazy feet going on, and the ball sales and
it's a pick and so that would probably no go ahead.
I'm sorry, Yeah, that's probably my number one issue. And
(11:35):
that's like for me, that's so correctable and not panicky,
you know. To answer your question a little bit more detailed,
is you know, when you watch quarterbacks panic in a
moment where the ball becomes a big issue. Like I'm
not using this as the example, it just is a
coincidental thing. I'll go back to Daniel Jones. I remember
(11:58):
the morning after the drafts being like, I don't like
what he does with the football moments of panic. Sometimes
it's uh, you know, you drop the ball and it
gets separated from your body. Sometimes you freeze, Like that
would be my thing with danme he just freeze and like, ah,
that would be something. And I did probably you know,
I wasn't a good enough player, so you know, I
think specific to the question is like just that freezing,
(12:20):
like you become stuck, you know, and then even greater
with Jexton, as I would probably tell you the laziness
of his feet are the biggest hurdle that he's going
to have to attack.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
It's funny you bring up the feet thing, and what
I was gonna say, I did. I talked to Phil Simms.
I think there was a day before the draft, and he,
you know Phil, I don't know if you talk to
Phil much, but he goes on these ransom times about
quarterback evaluation because he's done in a long time and
he quarterbacks, and he goes the one thing I hate
when people talk about quarterbacks, Oh, he's light on his feet.
I don't want a quarterback light on their feet. I
want a quarterback that gets their feet in the ground,
(12:52):
planted and they know what they're doing with their feet.
And it seems like you're kind of on that same
page as Phil.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Absolutely, I want fleets in the you know, I want
because that tells me conviction. You know that when I
look at that, I know what you're looking at. You
know what you're looking at. You're telling me what you're
looking at. And part of it is, I mean, if
we're just this is a little bit bigger than Jackson.
Part of it is, you know what's going on with
quarterback development, and you know, over from the age of
(13:18):
ten twelve on is very few guys are getting taught.
You know, hands under a center three step draw, What
does it look like playing on time? Hands under center
five step drop onto three four five ball comes out,
you know, and so you kind of train your feet
over again, years of reps to just put your putting
the ground, and it comes out. Put your putting in
the ground, it comes out, put your foot in the ground.
(13:39):
It's not there reset to another thing, or a lot
of times, you know, in the gun, you're like, you know,
you don't feel you know, think about it this way, John,
when I'm under center, I'm two or three feet from
the bad dudes. I better get to freak away from them,
you know. Wearing the gun, I'm automatically like, you know,
fifteen feet, I'm five yards. So I don't feel it
(13:59):
right away, you know, And so there's there's not that
built up urgency. It's one of my complaints when I
watched you know, twelve year old football that my son's play.
But the kid under center and let him learn that
feeling of getting away from the center, and that teaches
you better be in the ground, dude, and you better
be moving fast away. And so yeah, that's it, and
(14:20):
I go back to it. I go back to Drake
May last year. I go back to Jordan Love a
couple of years ago. They both had it the encouraging thing.
Jordan Loves had packed it pretty good. He still has,
you know, growth in that area. Drake only one year in,
but I was wildly impressed with how much he got
better at that.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
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Speaker 2 (14:51):
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Speaker 3 (15:07):
How quickly you think Jacksonville can learn the under center
drop back play action, turn your back to the defense
and kind of turn around and work that part of
It's something you've read a lot of play action in college,
but it's mostly kind of RPO shotgun stuff, not so
much under center turn your back stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Correct. Great question. I really believe it takes about two years,
two to three years to really get comfortable doing it,
because now can he go out and execute it, you know,
one off without you know, if you get some kinds
of basic coverages or guys are open for sure, you know,
but really getting to a point of you know, comfort
and seeing it all and playing it in in the
(15:43):
time because windows in the NFL, everyone knows are smaller
than they close. Quicker. I really think it takes two
to three years because just for everybody to understand quarterback
from the very early age, breaks the huddle, What am
I looking at? Finding safeties? Okay, so they kind of
give you the information of what might be the coverages,
front linebacker, safeties. So quick you get the ball and
(16:04):
all of a sudden, he's going to have to do
things he's never done before. You know, scariness to turn
your back to a defense. I don't know anything anymore,
Like I don't know where guys are, and I gotta
snap my head. I got to execute a good a
good ball fake, a good ball handling. So that's primary
to getting my head back. And so naturally what you
(16:24):
fight as a quarterback is the ball fake and the
ball handling isn't good because you're like trying to get
peaks of what's going on and just getting accustomed to
taking your eyes from yes no, yes. You know that
takes reps, and that takes comfort and confidence in building
it up. And you know, so he's gonna make mistakes
in that regard from that stuff. But you know that
(16:46):
I'm not telling everybody he's not going to be able
to execute parts of the you know, the play action
pass offense this year, but to really get comfortable at
it and to really just start cutting things loose. Good.
You start to see you don't really see people, You
see colors, you see, you see windows, you anticipate them
differently and more. Yeah, I would say two to three years.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
All right, So let's stick on the developmental process here.
He comes from a link Kiffin offense that I think
did more as a year went along. You saw some
NFL concepts in there, but it's also an offense then
you know this. They span the same, you know, seven
to ten things all all game. They do add of
different formations and stuff like that, which is why he's
so good at his job. And it's a lot of
just reading one player, right, Like all's the safety go
in the flat?
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Does he go? Does he does a corner? Go in
the flat? Does he go to the second level on
the over?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
So how do you think and how long will it
take and what adjustments will Jackson have to make to
kind of go from what he was asked to do
at all miss to what he's going to be asked
to do with Brian Dable with the Giants.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, I mean it's gonna take a significant amount of time.
You know, it's the starting point is asking what he
did at ol Miss from a changing protection, handling certain
stuff in the run game to what he's capable of.
And I know that there's been a conversation of you know,
Lane and so often you're getting into ideal plays. That
(18:04):
doesn't mean that he doesn't know the why you're getting
into the ideal plays. So if you got this guy
that understands like, oh, Lane's going to go to this
and we're going to this because of this, I actually
think it could be an advantage because he's gotten such
an understanding of, oh, this is the defense, this is
the weakness of the defense, this is where we want
to attack it. You've probably heard me say this. Every
(18:25):
defense there's an opportunity and there's a problem. And so
when you play in these offenses that are well coached
but sometimes coach driven, it doesn't mean the quarterback's robotic.
It doesn't mean he's got no clue what's going on.
He hopefully had gotten to the point where he was
anticipating what Lane was going to do and knew the why,
and so you know, I think that could be an
(18:47):
advantage of you got to figure out what they did
and kind of and why they did it, and how
much he understands it, and to the point of, you know,
them running similar concepts. I'll go back to last year
with Jaden Daniel because I heard a lot of people
say that about Jaden, and you know they did. You know,
Lsu ran a lot of like the same five or
six place. They would do it out of different formations,
(19:08):
different splits, different cuts, different people. He greased it though,
he was really really good at it. And I felt
the same way about Jackson. I remember watching his tape.
I'm like, man, they run a lot of three level crossers,
a lot of three level crossers, but he was really
good at seeing it and really good at throwing it
and to the right guy at the right times. And
so you know, I think as a coaching staff, Gable
and Cafta will have to look at and be like, Okay,
(19:30):
he's really good at this stuff. Those are concepts that
really can be a lot of coverages if you've got
a good decision maker and people with the ball in
their hands. So it would be something that I would
expect them, you know, when he's in where he's depth
charged playing. I would expect them to live in that
world a little bit with him. But I think that,
(19:51):
you know, if he's got the capability intellectually handle it
a lot. I don't think. I don't think that it's
going to be a negative on him, not.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
With the And I think clip Clingsbury did a great
job with that this year with it exactly and is
with with Daniels too. And it goes back. Actually, I
don't want to attack two things you just mentioned. This
was relayed to me by Sean o'harer, who talked to
Eli about quarterback evaluation, right, Eli Manning and what Eli said,
it's important with these kids coming out of college to know.
And I think this comes from meeting with them and
doing the thirty visits and get them on the board
(20:20):
and do the private workouts and that stuff. Are they
just doing the you know, all right, this guy goes here,
I throw it here. Is he just doing like the
joystick controller the coach is telling me to do this,
I'm doing this on this play or does he actually
understand the why and concept of the play, why it's working.
So when the defense maybe surprises you with something showed
(20:41):
you something you didn't expect pre snap. Well, you understand
the concept. You're not flustered because your first you know
ab thing decision's gone. You understand the concept, and then
you can adjust and make the right play based on
what the defense is shown you.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, what dots connect and what's the answer to the problem.
You know, so know with the with the whole one
read thing. When a coach tells you, hey, if this guy,
if this flat defender stays inside, we throw it out.
If he goes outside, we throw it in. Well, the
next level really to that is okay, if that defender
goes outside, there is a dot or another defender connected
(21:16):
to him, and so where does that not go? And
so that's like the next level of it is And
so often that you'll hear people say Reid is one
to two. Well it's really Read is one to who else?
You know, it's the read and you're trying. And I
had a coach Steve Mariucci was great with me as
a young player, and then Gary Kupiak was great with me.
(21:37):
He was that you got to see everything, but while
seeing nothing. You don't really want quarterbacks to just solely
be focused on one player. There's eleven on defense. So
you can sit there and go, coach, he went to
the flat. Well yeah, but that guy then replaced them
and you threw an interception for a touchdown to him.
You know, So that's part of that, and you know
that's why you know, for young quarterbacks the spring is
(22:00):
such a big deal, and you've heard coaches say, well,
we just throw so much at them to see how
much they can handle. In many ways, you are trying
to break those guys in the spring. You're trying to
like overwhelm them, yes, to see how much they can handle,
but also for you as the coach, to see where's
he weak at, seeing stuff like where does he where
(22:22):
is he not good at that? Or or does he
get that? Because if he gets that, then we're like, okay,
maybe we can go give him a little bit more stuff.
So you know that, and again the problem is, you
know when you mentioned if you expect something and get
something else. I always say quarterbacks should absolutely predetermine where
they want to throw a football. That's how you play
(22:44):
ahead of the defense. You never assume where you're going
to throw the football. You've got to confirm what the
defense is doing and so again this goes to the
college offense. You kind of anticipated what you were going
to get more consistently, can you so somewhat replicated that
in the NFL, But that would be something that I
would expect Dable and Kafka in the spring we got
(23:06):
constantly shown different stuff. We got constantly showing different stuff.
We want to make sure he thinks one thing and
sees another thing defensively, because that's the problem. Oh I
have I have a you know, a post route, and
I have an out route, and I have an over
and a in sweet they're in quarters and I'm gonna
out that throw this post of this out and it's
going to be a touchdown ball get snapped and they
(23:26):
go to cover three. I got a problem because the
post is dead and be out as dead. So what's
the answer, you know, And so like that's where you're
trying to get those guys. And that's that panic or
notepan I think is like in when you'll see that's
when I talk about sometimes his feet being a little
bit soft and high and that I don't know what
I'm looking at, you know, like Nope, that's where you know,
(23:49):
that's where those reps are going to become just absolutely huge.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Great answer. And you know, you mentioned they ran.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
One of the concepts they ran a lot was kind
of that mesh underneath right and then they brought the
big over over the top right to and that was
one of the concepts that they kind of ran a lot.
And you know, I think the one thing I really
liked about him, Dan and we talked about kind of
the opposite of this with JJ McCarthy last year, where
everything was kind of a line drive. I thought Dart's
ability to throw a touch over the middle of the
(24:17):
field and get it over the linebacker level in front
of the safeties, I thought that was some pretty advanced
stuff with his ability to put some touch on the football.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, I think some of the throws that he was
able to make, you know, when one of my my
probably my second note when it comes to physicals, makes
some really impressive athletic throws, you know, And so that's
the you know, I thought downfield the go ball was
awesome out of his and the post follow was awesome
out of his. But I'll go back to some of
those throws that you're talking about because sometimes, you know what,
(24:46):
that's why I when I don't love when people say
he makes all he can make all the throws. Don't care,
so I can go do it right now too. You
got to make the right throw at the right time.
So to your point, Sometimes you know it's man coverage
and it's clear underneath, and you've got a guy running
away and you got to pin it on his face mask,
and you want to get that ball right where that
guy's pinned on his face mask. You don't want too
(25:07):
much here on it because you don't want to give
makeup time, but you don't want it to be too
firm because you want your guy to be able to
go make a catch up play. And then there's times
when you know you got to the underneath coverage is
not deep enough and there's a void between them and
that in or crossing breaking runp But you just need
a little bit of a ball up over a firm
ball where it gets to that receiver before a defender
(25:29):
that's deeper, deeper, deeper kills them but doesn't get tipped
up in the air. And then there's some throws they
got to be stepped on right now, Like it's you have,
you know a guy that's seven yards and a guy
that's eight yards apart from each other type of thing,
and the windows coming and it's going to close very quickly,
and so you got to step on one and drive it.
And I think, yeah, that But that also is the
(25:49):
example of like why sometimes you like to run similar concepts,
You know, guys, because you've got a guy that you
have a lot of confidence in making that right throw
depended upon who's open. If you want to know how
a man and it's two minutes of crunch time football,
I'm your man. But if you're wondering about a long
term financial plan, you should talk to Citizens. Hey, I
can also talk long care. I'd like to learn about
Amolli routine.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yes, I knew I could help make sense of your
money with Citizens.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
All right, Now, you were a young quarterback in a
room trying to develop. You talked about it with when
you were at Steve Mariucci. What does this look like
for Jackson? Now you talked about the spring you're gonna
throw out at him. You bring out the fire hose.
See what he can figure out, See what he can do.
He's gonna play in training camp, He's gonna get reps
with the ones he's gonna play in preseason games. That's
all great. The thing I want to focus on you though, Dan,
once you get to the regular season, your snaps are gone.
(26:36):
You know, Russell Wilson's taking the stabs at practice. Maybe
you're getting scout team reps. What is that from your perspective,
you were in this What does that look like for
a young quarterback once the season starts, How do you
go about continuing to develop as a player without getting
in game or even a lot of the times practice reps.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, so the assistant coaches kind of have to start
to hate you and like get super annoyed me. You
so again, I was young and trying to survive. You
know in the league. Jackson obviously three billion times more talented,
so he's trying to go, you know, become a star.
I will what I would do, and you know what
a lot of younger quarterbacks would do is the night
(27:18):
before Bosch, give me the scriptive practice for tomorrow, Send
it to me on my iPad or whatever we had
paper back then, and we would go in. I would
go in at like five or six in the morning,
depending on when the day would start, and I would
tell all the other like second and third team skill
guys and offensive linemen meet me and the you know,
the indoor facility at five thirty in the morning. We're
(27:39):
gonna go over the practice script. We're gonna run every
play that's in practice because we're not getting the reps now,
not full speed, you know, but a walk through, jog through.
We're in the huddel I away, get to a line
of scrimmage and now you run the line of scrimmage
and so you as the quarterback, get the reps of like, oh,
we've got week run here, but they're safeties down, so
you're like, hey, check, check checking. We're into the right
(28:00):
and everybody's on the same page. And then the next place,
we have this past concept called guds. We're gonna run
this versus cover three, and then you would do that.
I would. We would do that every day, and then
after practice we would probably would take like you're not
trying to kill guys, but get your working like the
seven on seven script, and I would we would run
seven on seven and maybe like the team pass script,
(28:22):
and we would run try to run those like relatively
full speed or spot your receivers up. And you'd have
a coach or two and be like do what you
gotta do. You give me looks that I got to see,
and let's talk about if I'm doing the right thing.
So that would be an everyday thing, and then you
advance it. You know why we get to snap and
I'd yell it went to cover two. It went to
cover two, you know, and so you're you're trying to
fool yourself, You're trying to fool the defense. You'd have
(28:44):
a coach kind of do that in your back. And
then every rep in practice when you're sitting there watching,
you know, I'd walk I wasn't annoying. I'd walked up
to the huddle. I would listen to a what what
a matt shop would say or a Peyton Manning would say,
and I would Matthew Stafford. I'd listen to how they
would talk in the huddle. What were the thing that
I walk out and I would be ten yards behind
them and I would mirror what they were doing type
(29:05):
of thing. And so it's Ornie, yes, but it is
the way to get reps that gets you so much better.
And I think those would be the three things that
you know, I would emphasize. If I was Jackson, I
would emphasize if I was.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Those coaches, what can you learn just from the meeting
and classroom work?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Is that like mentally reading defenses even though you're not
doing it on the field, What can you learn just
from being in the room with a guy like Russell
Wilson and Jameis Winston?
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Oh, have men's amounts of information? You know? They you
know guys, those guys have seen so much and have
had so much success. How they study, how they study tape?
You know Again, another complaint I have is I watch tape.
I watched the movies. You know, I'm not you got
to study tape. You know, what are you studying here? Hey, Russell?
On on Wednesday morning, when you come in and you
(29:52):
watch the you watch the third down cut up? Like,
what are you studying? You know, are you studying the front?
Are you studying the are you studying the corners? Like?
What are you? Where's your starting point? You know, what's
the defensive coordinators tendency? You know there's only football's math.
They only get eleven. So you know, it's it's it's
(30:13):
moving parts at some points. And so just trying to
figure out how those guys study is a big deal.
How they take their studying to the practice field. How
they communicate what they've seen within studying to their teammates,
to their coaches, you know, how they handle studying a
game plan. Do you memorize every single part of the
game plan? Do you memorize only the third downs? Do
(30:35):
you walk through the third downs in the meeting room?
Like what are you do? You get a blank reel?
Like one of the things Kopyak would do with us
that was great. Would he would give us a blank
reel of defenses that we would you know, have on
tape and he would just call out a play, all right,
what are you doing? And we would have to answer
(30:56):
it like, oh gosh, I got a protection problem, you know,
played in real time, and so you know, I think
that you can just learn again a lot of how
guys go about, you know, making sure they're as prepared
as possible.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
I final question, Dan, this is probably unfair because you're
not going to be in the room and maybe there's
too many details pe you even give an answer on,
But when do you think we should first start even
thinking about making Jackson Dert the starter? Can this be
sooner than people think I've been telling people, why don't
we do some.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Trick or treating? First, go trick or.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Treating, get your candy, and then maybe we can, you know,
have a little lollipop. Then we can have the conversation
about it once you get into November.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, I mean obviously there's variables that impact that in
reality of that business. You know, how's the team doing.
Are they competitive or is the quarterback? Are you winning
with are you winning because are you winning a spieup?
So that there's a lot of variables that go into that.
I mean, best case scenario is that Jackson doesn't play
till you know, Thanksgiving World. Do you want?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
I like it you have the turkey?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah, that's like that means that, like Russell or Jamis,
is good that they're they're still competitive and winning some games.
And you know, like I've been very outspoken, I believe
that you if you're the Giants, you want Brian be
able to coach this young man. I just believe that
that is the ideal situation for these guys, and so
you want to make sure that results allow that to
(32:19):
continue to happen. I'm aware of the reality of the business,
but I think you know Thanksgiving would be you know,
last year I also said I wouldn't have played Drake May,
and you know, New England was probably right in handling
and that some of that stuff. And so he's also
got the right makeup to handle some of the struggles.
That's part of what you got to figure out with
Jackson's like, hey, dude, like, can you handle some tough time?
(32:40):
Can you handle some failure in this market? Like you
got to You got to know that your guy can
do that. But I'd say around Thanksgiving would be like
probably more of an ideal thing in my mind.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
All Right, I gotta do one more file up and
then we're gonna wrap it up.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, you mentioned you.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Want Brian Dable coaching him, And I've consistently gotten from
people like you who understand offenses in the league, and
they're all universal praise for Brian Dable. And I try
to explain this to Giant fans. Why do you think
Brian Dable is so good at training up quarterbacks and
getting them ready to play in the NFL?
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yeah, I mean I think you have to go back
to part of you know, his journey with Josh and
it wasn't just Brian and nothing Josh. I mean, Josh
obviously put in the time, but he was part of
like the springboard of taking Josh from you know, potential talented.
It's like being you know, an MVP type of player,
and obviously him winning it last year, and then you've
(33:31):
seen him take a player in Daniel that you know
had struggles and limited and probably made him beak out.
And so you've you've had his experience with two different
I guess starting quarterbacks in the NFL or different starting quarterbacks,
and he's taken one to about as high as you
can get a guy type of thing, and taken one
to about as high as you can get a guy.
(33:52):
Two very different physical talents, two probably very different mental talents.
And so when you do that in that league, that
tell as you guy can coach. He's also taken some other,
you know, pieces and allowed them to have some success.
We've seen some receivers that maybe aren't Wow names produce
for him. We've seen some tight ends that maybe aren't
(34:14):
Wow names produce for him. And so I think we've
watched this team remain somewhat competitive too, with you know,
a quarterback room that has been revolving. So you know,
I always look at a coach when it comes to
if you are depleted talent wise, can you just keep
(34:34):
them in it? It's almost like quarterback, can you keep
them in it? I'm not saying you got to go
fourteen and three? Can you keep them in it? And
then if you do have the necessary talent, can you
go win some games? I think that answer for him
is a pretty easy yes.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Hi, Dan, is there anything you want the fans and
know all about that you're up to, that you're doing, that
you want to promote the floor is yours?
Speaker 1 (34:52):
My friend?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
No, man, you know I'm gonna take some time away,
you know, like there's pockets, But no, I'm I say
I'll take some time a while. I'd probably be on
something tomorrow. So no. All good man, Hey.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Dude, we'd love to have you down in camp this year.
I know you're close by. Love to have you come
down check out Jackson. If you want to come, let me.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Know I want to come. The problem is, John, I
married a girl from Philadelphia and she is not a
New York sports fan. So it's like it's almost like
I would I don't lie to her, but I would
have to like lie like you know some people are like,
I'm going on a business trip and they got a
golf trip or something with their boys. I'd have to
figure out a way to like make her not know
that I'm going to to a giant scam.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
So, yeah, you're the best.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Man.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Really love watching your career go. You're doing a fantastic job.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
And enjoy your rest of relaxation, because lord knows, we
back at it go on a thousand miles per hour
sooner than later.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Man, thanks so much for the time.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Hey Man, appreciate you. Bud.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Oh, we thank Dan Orlowski. I love that guy. He's
the best, just real guys. He's super friendly, He's an
awesome guy, and I'm so happy for success. And again,
he was with us when he was trying to get
into the business office quarterback stuff. I think he was
just doing YouTube stuff. He came on our shows and
we still text. He's been very loyal, he's he's he's
a good dude, and I'm so happy he's having the
(36:09):
success that he's had at UH at ESPN. So we
thank you dani Oloski for joining us right here on
the Johnsontle Podcast, Presented by Citizens, the Official Bank of
the Giants. We'll have continuing coverage of the Giants OTAs
the off season program. We'll keep doing stuff on the
draft picks. All of that and most of those podcasts
will come to you from the Hackensack Marine Health Podcast Studio.
Keep getting better for Danielaskyam, John Schmolke, We'll see you
(36:31):
next time.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Everybody,
It's time to get inside the Giants hut.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Let's go, Let's go Giants, the Giants moubul give me
some job.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Part of the Giants Podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Let's roll.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, brought
to you by Citizens Official Bank of the Giants. We
continue our look at the Giants draft glass with a
big focus on Jackson Dart and all the fun and
excitement that comes with a quarterback uh that the Giants
hope to develop into the eventual starter. We're coming to
you from the Hackensack Marine Healths Podcast studio. Keep getting Better.
So I've been trying to talk to as many quarterbacks
(00:32):
as we can. Have you even watched them.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Go back.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Phil Simms before the draft actually gave us a nice
spiel on Jackson Dart, so you can get that from
him before the draft. And then after the draft. We
talked to Chase Daniel, go check that out. We talked
to Kurt Warner, go check that out.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I think just.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Really great insight into the quarterback position, what the guys
have to do to get better and develop at the
next level. Without further ado, here's our guest Dan Roloski,
and now we welcome in the one and only Dan Orlosky.
You can see him on and all the other million
media things Dan is doing these days.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
It's good. It's been a while, man. Good to talk
to you.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
How are you, Yeah, good to talk to you. Man.
I'm doing great, uh, you know, coming off a couple
of weeks ago at the draft and obviously your guys
had a great one, hopeful one, let me put it
that way. So but doing very well. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Now, Dan has been very loyal to us.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
We had Dan on before I think it was before
you even signed out on the ESPN right back in
the day.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
We appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
And by the way, congratulations on all your success man.
You know, I think from the outside looking in, people
can tell that you work hard at it and that
you put the work in, and I think, quite frankly,
that's why you've had the success that you've had.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Thank you. Man. No, it's a it's a calling Carter's mind,
you know. It's it's become a thing where I am
I am who I am, and I don't know how
not to work hard. I'm thankful for that, and you know,
very very fortunate. I've had a lot of open doors
for me and and been ready for him and you know,
just just getting going. I very much so enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
One fun question for you before you get going here,
how long did it take you to figure out how
to use the VR headset controller thing?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah? Realistically like fifteen to twenty minutes.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Oh no, that's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I'm pressed. Yeah. Yeah, I had my kids have one
at the house. I've probably used that like twice and honestly,
who were three minutes into it? I was like, this
is too much for me. I almost got wheezy, you know,
using the one at the house. Fuck Andrew Hawkins, it's
part of he's one of the owners of the company.
Brought it let's call it a year and a half
(02:27):
ago and he's like, I think this would be cool
and I was like, yeah, but it feels like a lot.
And then I was like, you got to cut the
fat off of it. And he brought it in maybe
a year ago. Again he's like, what do you think
We've refined a little bit and I was like, it's
it's better, you know, it just needs to advance and
again be a little bit simpler with the execution. And
then he brought it in kind of the early last
(02:48):
season and I was like, this is this is actually
really sick and so we and I just told him
we were talking about I said, listen, let's just do it,
like we got to trust me. Let's just do it.
If it's a disaster, it's a disaster. But we got
a shoot and uh, you know, he expedited some of
the trigger points of the joysticks for me, and you know,
(03:09):
I tried to keep it somewhat simple throughout that process
of executing it, and uh, it was fifteen twenty minutes
in practicing. It came forty minutes before show, and I
was like, dude, let's just do it right now, like
let's and we taped the first one, like let's just
do it and figure it out. And we did, and
it's it's kind of taken off. It's been cool. See.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I think that's a good place to start, right because
I think what you're trying to show with the VR
headset is what the quarterback's looking at and what he's seeing.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah, and for me, especially not having played the position,
but I know I had curR won around last week
and he said for him, it's hard too. I think
one of the toughest things on this planet to do
is evaluate college quarterbacks and figure out how they're going
to play in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
It's almost a different game.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
You might know what the play is supposed to do,
but you don't know how he's being coached on it,
what the coach is telling him to do, how he's
supposed to read it. So let's start there, Dan, how
do you try to figure that part of the evaluation
out with college quarterbacks and college tips without access to
the player and the coach to find out what he's
being taught to do on certain plays.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, it's different than any other position. So every other position,
and mainly the ones that are drafted early, size, speed, strength,
power matter the most. You know, big, fast, powerful, strong.
If I'm taking a defensive end at the third position,
I want a guy that's six foot four, two hundred
and fifty pounds, runs four to four jumps to the gym,
and has the quickness of Alan Iverson. And so when
(04:32):
you're really like going into the quarterback, I think the
physical matters a little bit more than let's say twenty
years ago, but it's not the most important stuff, and
you do have to have some physical qualities to be
an early round draft pick and then to have the
chance to go be really good to great in the NFL.
But those are really the secondary elements. The primary elements
(04:56):
are so much more, you know what we say, the
mind the neck up. And so I would tell you
that the number one thing just af tape because I
don't get to sit and evaluate personality. The number one
thing off tape that I look at is what do
you do in moments of panic? Because I really believe
(05:16):
that is a line of demarcation between can you play
or not? And then after if you can, then there's
different levels and peers to Okay, he's really good or
that's the thing that holds a bauck or he's great.
What are you doing moments? Because that's real life playing
quarterback in the NFL, and in moments of panic can
be you know, the answer could be, well, you know,
(05:37):
in moments of panic, he's instinctually he's unbelievable, or he's
got this athleticism you know that allows him to get
out of those moments, or is decision making never blinked,
or he's you know, able to take off as a runner.
And so like what you do consistently and those moments
of panic is my favorite thing to try and watch
(05:59):
on tape with the guy, because if you can handle
those moments and you've got skill talent wise to handle
those moments and do good with a decision or a
throw or a movement or an escape, that's carry over.
Like that's stuff that carries over to the next level.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
What were the positives from Jackson Dart that you liked
in those moments?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
John that was my favorite quality of him, You know,
I when I watched his tape and I go back
to this, this was probably the moment for me when
it came to watching quarterbacks that I fell in love
with that trade. I remember watching Joe Burrow and I
called LSU games. I'd seen him in real person. I'd
(06:48):
gone and called the National Title game in person. And
I remember watching a game versus O miss and he
made he had pressure an unblocked guy, or and he
made a subtle movement in the and it came to
this moment where in a brink of an eye he
could take a sack. It was gonna be a sack bumble,
(07:08):
maybe throw the ball into the coverage, take off and
run for a yard. Just panic and you just saw
this very calm dump off to a back that was
like four yards away from him, and I was like,
that's it, Like, that's that's it right there, and I'll
go back to Jaden Daniels last year, like Jaden had
that same stuff that he just never in those moments
(07:31):
to panic. It felt like nine and a half out
of ten times the right decision, not a good decision,
the right decision was made. And I felt that way
about Jackson. I don't feel maybe he was eight or
nine out of ten times, you know, doing the right thing.
It wasn't the level of Joe and Jaden, but I
(07:52):
was watching going, man, he just doesn't panic with the ball.
He just doesn't panic with the ball. And that was
the quality that made me really, you know, I have
my notes right in front of me every game I studied.
I liked that more and more. I liked it more
and more and more and more. And so that was
the quality that got me a little bit more like wait, wait, wait,
(08:12):
wait wait wait. I think I like this guy more
than I thought I would have. And I like this
guy more than maybe some other people do.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
And I think a big part of that Dan I
thought his ability to consistently step up in the pocket
was huge, you.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Know, the strongest in the pocket. I don't mean to
touch off.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
He was.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
He's the guy that is in this class coming out.
He was the strongest in the pocket. And that means
a couple of different things, like when like my one
of my favorite qualities and I think it stands the
test of time, and some guys get away with it
is when a quarterback can move in the pocket and
still remain somewhat visible of what's going on downfield. It's
(08:51):
not a blacker or white takeoff and run or not,
but still feel like what's going on downfield more often
than not, but not risk the ball. And if you
see like it is an old school fundamental thing that
so often he moves in the pocket and there's the
two hands on the ball. It's swiping across his chest
(09:11):
and you see guys pulling at him or at the ball,
and he stays strong in there. And also and sometimes
he takes off and runs because he sees the sea
him and goes or sees I don't like anything go
And then sometimes you can see him like his moving
take a little cross or take a little and take
a little shallow. And so that was probably my second
favorite thing I did to tape the night of the draft.
(09:32):
That's his second, my second favorite quality of his.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
All right, let me take the other side of this,
and this is probably not dart related, but I'm just interested.
What are the big red flags for you for what
you don't want a quarterback to do when he gets
into those pressure, panicky type of situations.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, so it's a little bit similar to Drake may
for me last year. Lazy feet. You know, some guys
that are just very naturally athletically gifted, they don't have
to hone in specifically early in their life on basics
and fundamentals and technique. And I always say this to people. John,
(10:10):
you know, so you've been playing the position. Let's let's
live in the world where these guys and Jackson's been
playing quarterback for ten years. That's ten years of bad habits.
So you're not erasing those in you know, a two
month span leading up into the NFL draft, and so
it just takes that that's when he gets lazy feet.
(10:30):
If you go to the first drive of the Georgia game,
there is a little bit of unblocked pressure, he gets
lazy feet. And when I mean lazy feet. Sometimes it's
like this. Jordan Love has this too, where it's like
a hoppy you know where you know, I always say,
if you can almost think of a baseball pitcher getting
(10:50):
to the top of their wind up and here comes
the sink. It's a little bit of a sink, and
here comes a forcing fastball. You know. Jackson has that
very much, so consistently, and then he has plays where
like why do you look like you're like, you don't
know what's going on, and so there's that hop light
on your feet. I don't necessarily know what I'm looking at,
(11:12):
and so it's like this lazy feet, and it creates
issues for him. Sometimes he misses a read, sometimes he
misses a throw. And again you go back to the
start of the Georgia game. It's the right read, he
sees it, it comes out on time, but he's got
these lazy feet going on, and the ball sales and
it's a pick and so that would probably no go ahead.
I'm sorry, Yeah, that's probably my number one issue. And
(11:35):
that's like for me, that's so correctable and not panicky,
you know. To answer your question a little bit more detailed,
is you know, when you watch quarterbacks panic in a
moment where the ball becomes a big issue. Like I'm
not using this as the example, it just is a
coincidental thing. I'll go back to Daniel Jones. I remember
(11:58):
the morning after the drafts being like, I don't like
what he does with the football moments of panic. Sometimes
it's uh, you know, you drop the ball and it
gets separated from your body. Sometimes you freeze, Like that
would be my thing with danme he just freeze and like, ah,
that would be something. And I did probably you know,
I wasn't a good enough player, so you know, I
think specific to the question is like just that freezing,
(12:20):
like you become stuck, you know, and then even greater
with Jexton, as I would probably tell you the laziness
of his feet are the biggest hurdle that he's going
to have to attack.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
It's funny you bring up the feet thing, and what
I was gonna say, I did. I talked to Phil Simms.
I think there was a day before the draft, and he,
you know Phil, I don't know if you talk to
Phil much, but he goes on these ransom times about
quarterback evaluation because he's done in a long time and
he quarterbacks, and he goes the one thing I hate
when people talk about quarterbacks, Oh, he's light on his feet.
I don't want a quarterback light on their feet. I
want a quarterback that gets their feet in the ground,
(12:52):
planted and they know what they're doing with their feet.
And it seems like you're kind of on that same
page as Phil.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Absolutely, I want fleets in the you know, I want
because that tells me conviction. You know that when I
look at that, I know what you're looking at. You
know what you're looking at. You're telling me what you're
looking at. And part of it is, I mean, if
we're just this is a little bit bigger than Jackson.
Part of it is, you know what's going on with
quarterback development, and you know, over from the age of
(13:18):
ten twelve on is very few guys are getting taught.
You know, hands under a center three step draw, What
does it look like playing on time? Hands under center
five step drop onto three four five ball comes out,
you know, and so you kind of train your feet
over again, years of reps to just put your putting
the ground, and it comes out. Put your putting in
the ground, it comes out, put your foot in the ground.
(13:39):
It's not there reset to another thing, or a lot
of times, you know, in the gun, you're like, you know,
you don't feel you know, think about it this way, John,
when I'm under center, I'm two or three feet from
the bad dudes. I better get to freak away from them,
you know. Wearing the gun, I'm automatically like, you know,
fifteen feet, I'm five yards. So I don't feel it
(13:59):
right away, you know, And so there's there's not that
built up urgency. It's one of my complaints when I
watched you know, twelve year old football that my son's play.
But the kid under center and let him learn that
feeling of getting away from the center, and that teaches
you better be in the ground, dude, and you better
be moving fast away. And so yeah, that's it, and
(14:20):
I go back to it. I go back to Drake
May last year. I go back to Jordan Love a
couple of years ago. They both had it the encouraging thing.
Jordan Loves had packed it pretty good. He still has,
you know, growth in that area. Drake only one year in,
but I was wildly impressed with how much he got
better at that.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
The Giants Little Podcast is brought to you by Citizens,
the Official Bank of the Giants, from game day celebrations
to you everyday financial needs, big move Fans can get
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Speaker 1 (14:49):
Learn more at Citizens bank dot com slash.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Giants hoddle up, get in here.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
If you're lined up here, you gotta go over the
middle with at the score.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Great. How do we make that happen? I don't know,
but Citizens does make sense of your money with Citizens
Official Bank of Eli Manning.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
How quickly you think Jacksonville can learn the under center
drop back play action, turn your back to the defense
and kind of turn around and work that part of
It's something you've read a lot of play action in college,
but it's mostly kind of RPO shotgun stuff, not so
much under center turn your back stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Correct. Great question. I really believe it takes about two years,
two to three years to really get comfortable doing it,
because now can he go out and execute it, you know,
one off without you know, if you get some kinds
of basic coverages or guys are open for sure, you know,
but really getting to a point of you know, comfort
and seeing it all and playing it in in the
(15:43):
time because windows in the NFL, everyone knows are smaller
than they close. Quicker. I really think it takes two
to three years because just for everybody to understand quarterback
from the very early age, breaks the huddle, What am
I looking at? Finding safeties? Okay, so they kind of
give you the information of what might be the coverages,
front linebacker, safeties. So quick you get the ball and
(16:04):
all of a sudden, he's going to have to do
things he's never done before. You know, scariness to turn
your back to a defense. I don't know anything anymore,
Like I don't know where guys are, and I gotta
snap my head. I got to execute a good a
good ball fake, a good ball handling. So that's primary
to getting my head back. And so naturally what you
(16:24):
fight as a quarterback is the ball fake and the
ball handling isn't good because you're like trying to get
peaks of what's going on and just getting accustomed to
taking your eyes from yes no, yes. You know that
takes reps, and that takes comfort and confidence in building
it up. And you know, so he's gonna make mistakes
in that regard from that stuff. But you know that
(16:46):
I'm not telling everybody he's not going to be able
to execute parts of the you know, the play action
pass offense this year, but to really get comfortable at
it and to really just start cutting things loose. Good.
You start to see you don't really see people, You
see colors, you see, you see windows, you anticipate them
differently and more. Yeah, I would say two to three years.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
All right, So let's stick on the developmental process here.
He comes from a link Kiffin offense that I think
did more as a year went along. You saw some
NFL concepts in there, but it's also an offense then
you know this. They span the same, you know, seven
to ten things all all game. They do add of
different formations and stuff like that, which is why he's
so good at his job. And it's a lot of
just reading one player, right, Like all's the safety go
in the flat?
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Does he go? Does he does a corner? Go in
the flat? Does he go to the second level on
the over?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
So how do you think and how long will it
take and what adjustments will Jackson have to make to
kind of go from what he was asked to do
at all miss to what he's going to be asked
to do with Brian Dable with the Giants.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, I mean it's gonna take a significant amount of time.
You know, it's the starting point is asking what he
did at ol Miss from a changing protection, handling certain
stuff in the run game to what he's capable of.
And I know that there's been a conversation of you know,
Lane and so often you're getting into ideal plays. That
(18:04):
doesn't mean that he doesn't know the why you're getting
into the ideal plays. So if you got this guy
that understands like, oh, Lane's going to go to this
and we're going to this because of this, I actually
think it could be an advantage because he's gotten such
an understanding of, oh, this is the defense, this is
the weakness of the defense, this is where we want
to attack it. You've probably heard me say this. Every
(18:25):
defense there's an opportunity and there's a problem. And so
when you play in these offenses that are well coached
but sometimes coach driven, it doesn't mean the quarterback's robotic.
It doesn't mean he's got no clue what's going on.
He hopefully had gotten to the point where he was
anticipating what Lane was going to do and knew the why,
and so you know, I think that could be an
(18:47):
advantage of you got to figure out what they did
and kind of and why they did it, and how
much he understands it, and to the point of, you know,
them running similar concepts. I'll go back to last year
with Jaden Daniel because I heard a lot of people
say that about Jaden, and you know they did. You know,
Lsu ran a lot of like the same five or
six place. They would do it out of different formations,
(19:08):
different splits, different cuts, different people. He greased it though,
he was really really good at it. And I felt
the same way about Jackson. I remember watching his tape.
I'm like, man, they run a lot of three level crossers,
a lot of three level crossers, but he was really
good at seeing it and really good at throwing it
and to the right guy at the right times. And
so you know, I think as a coaching staff, Gable
and Cafta will have to look at and be like, Okay,
(19:30):
he's really good at this stuff. Those are concepts that
really can be a lot of coverages if you've got
a good decision maker and people with the ball in
their hands. So it would be something that I would
expect them, you know, when he's in where he's depth
charged playing. I would expect them to live in that
world a little bit with him. But I think that,
(19:51):
you know, if he's got the capability intellectually handle it
a lot. I don't think. I don't think that it's
going to be a negative on him, not.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
With the And I think clip Clingsbury did a great
job with that this year with it exactly and is
with with Daniels too. And it goes back. Actually, I
don't want to attack two things you just mentioned. This
was relayed to me by Sean o'harer, who talked to
Eli about quarterback evaluation, right, Eli Manning and what Eli said,
it's important with these kids coming out of college to know.
And I think this comes from meeting with them and
doing the thirty visits and get them on the board
(20:20):
and do the private workouts and that stuff. Are they
just doing the you know, all right, this guy goes here,
I throw it here. Is he just doing like the
joystick controller the coach is telling me to do this,
I'm doing this on this play or does he actually
understand the why and concept of the play, why it's working.
So when the defense maybe surprises you with something showed
(20:41):
you something you didn't expect pre snap. Well, you understand
the concept. You're not flustered because your first you know
ab thing decision's gone. You understand the concept, and then
you can adjust and make the right play based on
what the defense is shown you.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, what dots connect and what's the answer to the problem.
You know, so know with the with the whole one
read thing. When a coach tells you, hey, if this guy,
if this flat defender stays inside, we throw it out.
If he goes outside, we throw it in. Well, the
next level really to that is okay, if that defender
goes outside, there is a dot or another defender connected
(21:16):
to him, and so where does that not go? And
so that's like the next level of it is And
so often that you'll hear people say Reid is one
to two. Well it's really Read is one to who else?
You know, it's the read and you're trying. And I
had a coach Steve Mariucci was great with me as
a young player, and then Gary Kupiak was great with me.
(21:37):
He was that you got to see everything, but while
seeing nothing. You don't really want quarterbacks to just solely
be focused on one player. There's eleven on defense. So
you can sit there and go, coach, he went to
the flat. Well yeah, but that guy then replaced them
and you threw an interception for a touchdown to him.
You know, So that's part of that, and you know
that's why you know, for young quarterbacks the spring is
(22:00):
such a big deal, and you've heard coaches say, well,
we just throw so much at them to see how
much they can handle. In many ways, you are trying
to break those guys in the spring. You're trying to
like overwhelm them, yes, to see how much they can handle,
but also for you as the coach, to see where's
he weak at, seeing stuff like where does he where
(22:22):
is he not good at that? Or or does he
get that? Because if he gets that, then we're like, okay,
maybe we can go give him a little bit more stuff.
So you know that, and again the problem is, you
know when you mentioned if you expect something and get
something else. I always say quarterbacks should absolutely predetermine where
they want to throw a football. That's how you play
(22:44):
ahead of the defense. You never assume where you're going
to throw the football. You've got to confirm what the
defense is doing and so again this goes to the
college offense. You kind of anticipated what you were going
to get more consistently, can you so somewhat replicated that
in the NFL, But that would be something that I
would expect Dable and Kafka in the spring we got
(23:06):
constantly shown different stuff. We got constantly showing different stuff.
We want to make sure he thinks one thing and
sees another thing defensively, because that's the problem. Oh I
have I have a you know, a post route, and
I have an out route, and I have an over
and a in sweet they're in quarters and I'm gonna
out that throw this post of this out and it's
going to be a touchdown ball get snapped and they
(23:26):
go to cover three. I got a problem because the
post is dead and be out as dead. So what's
the answer, you know, And so like that's where you're
trying to get those guys. And that's that panic or
notepan I think is like in when you'll see that's
when I talk about sometimes his feet being a little
bit soft and high and that I don't know what
I'm looking at, you know, like Nope, that's where you know,
(23:49):
that's where those reps are going to become just absolutely huge.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Great answer. And you know, you mentioned they ran.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
One of the concepts they ran a lot was kind
of that mesh underneath right and then they brought the
big over over the top right to and that was
one of the concepts that they kind of ran a lot.
And you know, I think the one thing I really
liked about him, Dan and we talked about kind of
the opposite of this with JJ McCarthy last year, where
everything was kind of a line drive. I thought Dart's
ability to throw a touch over the middle of the
(24:17):
field and get it over the linebacker level in front
of the safeties, I thought that was some pretty advanced
stuff with his ability to put some touch on the football.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, I think some of the throws that he was
able to make, you know, when one of my my
probably my second note when it comes to physicals, makes
some really impressive athletic throws, you know, And so that's
the you know, I thought downfield the go ball was
awesome out of his and the post follow was awesome
out of his. But I'll go back to some of
those throws that you're talking about because sometimes, you know what,
(24:46):
that's why I when I don't love when people say
he makes all he can make all the throws. Don't care,
so I can go do it right now too. You
got to make the right throw at the right time.
So to your point, Sometimes you know it's man coverage
and it's clear underneath, and you've got a guy running
away and you got to pin it on his face mask,
and you want to get that ball right where that
guy's pinned on his face mask. You don't want too
(25:07):
much here on it because you don't want to give
makeup time, but you don't want it to be too
firm because you want your guy to be able to
go make a catch up play. And then there's times
when you know you got to the underneath coverage is
not deep enough and there's a void between them and
that in or crossing breaking runp But you just need
a little bit of a ball up over a firm
ball where it gets to that receiver before a defender
(25:29):
that's deeper, deeper, deeper kills them but doesn't get tipped
up in the air. And then there's some throws they
got to be stepped on right now, Like it's you have,
you know a guy that's seven yards and a guy
that's eight yards apart from each other type of thing,
and the windows coming and it's going to close very quickly,
and so you got to step on one and drive it.
And I think, yeah, that But that also is the
(25:49):
example of like why sometimes you like to run similar concepts,
You know, guys, because you've got a guy that you
have a lot of confidence in making that right throw
depended upon who's open. If you want to know how
a man and it's two minutes of crunch time football,
I'm your man. But if you're wondering about a long
term financial plan, you should talk to Citizens. Hey, I
can also talk long care. I'd like to learn about
Amolli routine.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yes, I knew I could help make sense of your
money with Citizens.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
All right, Now, you were a young quarterback in a
room trying to develop. You talked about it with when
you were at Steve Mariucci. What does this look like
for Jackson? Now you talked about the spring you're gonna
throw out at him. You bring out the fire hose.
See what he can figure out, See what he can do.
He's gonna play in training camp, He's gonna get reps
with the ones he's gonna play in preseason games. That's
all great. The thing I want to focus on you though, Dan,
once you get to the regular season, your snaps are gone.
(26:36):
You know, Russell Wilson's taking the stabs at practice. Maybe
you're getting scout team reps. What is that from your perspective,
you were in this What does that look like for
a young quarterback once the season starts, How do you
go about continuing to develop as a player without getting
in game or even a lot of the times practice reps.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, so the assistant coaches kind of have to start
to hate you and like get super annoyed me. You
so again, I was young and trying to survive. You
know in the league. Jackson obviously three billion times more talented,
so he's trying to go, you know, become a star.
I will what I would do, and you know what
a lot of younger quarterbacks would do is the night
(27:18):
before Bosch, give me the scriptive practice for tomorrow, Send
it to me on my iPad or whatever we had
paper back then, and we would go in. I would
go in at like five or six in the morning,
depending on when the day would start, and I would
tell all the other like second and third team skill
guys and offensive linemen meet me and the you know,
the indoor facility at five thirty in the morning. We're
(27:39):
gonna go over the practice script. We're gonna run every
play that's in practice because we're not getting the reps now,
not full speed, you know, but a walk through, jog through.
We're in the huddel I away, get to a line
of scrimmage and now you run the line of scrimmage
and so you as the quarterback, get the reps of like, oh,
we've got week run here, but they're safeties down, so
you're like, hey, check, check checking. We're into the right
(28:00):
and everybody's on the same page. And then the next place,
we have this past concept called guds. We're gonna run
this versus cover three, and then you would do that.
I would. We would do that every day, and then
after practice we would probably would take like you're not
trying to kill guys, but get your working like the
seven on seven script, and I would we would run
seven on seven and maybe like the team pass script,
(28:22):
and we would run try to run those like relatively
full speed or spot your receivers up. And you'd have
a coach or two and be like do what you
gotta do. You give me looks that I got to see,
and let's talk about if I'm doing the right thing.
So that would be an everyday thing, and then you
advance it. You know why we get to snap and
I'd yell it went to cover two. It went to
cover two, you know, and so you're you're trying to
fool yourself, You're trying to fool the defense. You'd have
(28:44):
a coach kind of do that in your back. And
then every rep in practice when you're sitting there watching,
you know, I'd walk I wasn't annoying. I'd walked up
to the huddle. I would listen to a what what
a matt shop would say or a Peyton Manning would say,
and I would Matthew Stafford. I'd listen to how they
would talk in the huddle. What were the thing that
I walk out and I would be ten yards behind
them and I would mirror what they were doing type
(29:05):
of thing. And so it's Ornie, yes, but it is
the way to get reps that gets you so much better.
And I think those would be the three things that
you know, I would emphasize. If I was Jackson, I
would emphasize if I was.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Those coaches, what can you learn just from the meeting
and classroom work?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Is that like mentally reading defenses even though you're not
doing it on the field, What can you learn just
from being in the room with a guy like Russell
Wilson and Jameis Winston?
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Oh, have men's amounts of information? You know? They you
know guys, those guys have seen so much and have
had so much success. How they study, how they study tape?
You know Again, another complaint I have is I watch tape.
I watched the movies. You know, I'm not you got
to study tape. You know, what are you studying here? Hey, Russell?
On on Wednesday morning, when you come in and you
(29:52):
watch the you watch the third down cut up? Like,
what are you studying? You know, are you studying the front?
Are you studying the are you studying the corners? Like?
What are you? Where's your starting point? You know, what's
the defensive coordinators tendency? You know there's only football's math.
They only get eleven. So you know, it's it's it's
(30:13):
moving parts at some points. And so just trying to
figure out how those guys study is a big deal.
How they take their studying to the practice field. How
they communicate what they've seen within studying to their teammates,
to their coaches, you know, how they handle studying a
game plan. Do you memorize every single part of the
game plan? Do you memorize only the third downs? Do
(30:35):
you walk through the third downs in the meeting room?
Like what are you do? You get a blank reel?
Like one of the things Kopyak would do with us
that was great. Would he would give us a blank
reel of defenses that we would you know, have on
tape and he would just call out a play, all right,
what are you doing? And we would have to answer
(30:56):
it like, oh gosh, I got a protection problem, you know,
played in real time, and so you know, I think
that you can just learn again a lot of how
guys go about, you know, making sure they're as prepared
as possible.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
I final question, Dan, this is probably unfair because you're
not going to be in the room and maybe there's
too many details pe you even give an answer on,
But when do you think we should first start even
thinking about making Jackson Dert the starter? Can this be
sooner than people think I've been telling people, why don't
we do some.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Trick or treating? First, go trick or.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Treating, get your candy, and then maybe we can, you know,
have a little lollipop. Then we can have the conversation
about it once you get into November.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, I mean obviously there's variables that impact that in
reality of that business. You know, how's the team doing.
Are they competitive or is the quarterback? Are you winning
with are you winning because are you winning a spieup?
So that there's a lot of variables that go into that.
I mean, best case scenario is that Jackson doesn't play
till you know, Thanksgiving World. Do you want?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
I like it you have the turkey?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah, that's like that means that, like Russell or Jamis,
is good that they're they're still competitive and winning some games.
And you know, like I've been very outspoken, I believe
that you if you're the Giants, you want Brian be
able to coach this young man. I just believe that
that is the ideal situation for these guys, and so
you want to make sure that results allow that to
(32:19):
continue to happen. I'm aware of the reality of the business,
but I think you know Thanksgiving would be you know,
last year I also said I wouldn't have played Drake May,
and you know, New England was probably right in handling
and that some of that stuff. And so he's also
got the right makeup to handle some of the struggles.
That's part of what you got to figure out with
Jackson's like, hey, dude, like, can you handle some tough time?
(32:40):
Can you handle some failure in this market? Like you
got to You got to know that your guy can
do that. But I'd say around Thanksgiving would be like
probably more of an ideal thing in my mind.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
All Right, I gotta do one more file up and
then we're gonna wrap it up.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, you mentioned you.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Want Brian Dable coaching him, And I've consistently gotten from
people like you who understand offenses in the league, and
they're all universal praise for Brian Dable. And I try
to explain this to Giant fans. Why do you think
Brian Dable is so good at training up quarterbacks and
getting them ready to play in the NFL?
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yeah, I mean I think you have to go back
to part of you know, his journey with Josh and
it wasn't just Brian and nothing Josh. I mean, Josh
obviously put in the time, but he was part of
like the springboard of taking Josh from you know, potential talented.
It's like being you know, an MVP type of player,
and obviously him winning it last year, and then you've
(33:31):
seen him take a player in Daniel that you know
had struggles and limited and probably made him beak out.
And so you've you've had his experience with two different
I guess starting quarterbacks in the NFL or different starting quarterbacks,
and he's taken one to about as high as you
can get a guy type of thing, and taken one
to about as high as you can get a guy.
(33:52):
Two very different physical talents, two probably very different mental talents.
And so when you do that in that league, that
tell as you guy can coach. He's also taken some other,
you know, pieces and allowed them to have some success.
We've seen some receivers that maybe aren't Wow names produce
for him. We've seen some tight ends that maybe aren't
(34:14):
Wow names produce for him. And so I think we've
watched this team remain somewhat competitive too, with you know,
a quarterback room that has been revolving. So you know,
I always look at a coach when it comes to
if you are depleted talent wise, can you just keep
(34:34):
them in it? It's almost like quarterback, can you keep
them in it? I'm not saying you got to go
fourteen and three? Can you keep them in it? And
then if you do have the necessary talent, can you
go win some games? I think that answer for him
is a pretty easy yes.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Hi, Dan, is there anything you want the fans and
know all about that you're up to, that you're doing, that
you want to promote the floor is yours?
Speaker 1 (34:52):
My friend?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
No, man, you know I'm gonna take some time away,
you know, like there's pockets, But no, I'm I say
I'll take some time a while. I'd probably be on
something tomorrow. So no. All good man, Hey.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Dude, we'd love to have you down in camp this year.
I know you're close by. Love to have you come
down check out Jackson. If you want to come, let me.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Know I want to come. The problem is, John, I
married a girl from Philadelphia and she is not a
New York sports fan. So it's like it's almost like
I would I don't lie to her, but I would
have to like lie like you know some people are like,
I'm going on a business trip and they got a
golf trip or something with their boys. I'd have to
figure out a way to like make her not know
that I'm going to to a giant scam.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
So, yeah, you're the best.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Man.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Really love watching your career go. You're doing a fantastic job.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
And enjoy your rest of relaxation, because lord knows, we
back at it go on a thousand miles per hour
sooner than later.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Man, thanks so much for the time.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Hey Man, appreciate you. Bud.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Oh, we thank Dan Orlowski. I love that guy. He's
the best, just real guys. He's super friendly, He's an
awesome guy, and I'm so happy for success. And again,
he was with us when he was trying to get
into the business office quarterback stuff. I think he was
just doing YouTube stuff. He came on our shows and
we still text. He's been very loyal, he's he's he's
a good dude, and I'm so happy he's having the
(36:09):
success that he's had at UH at ESPN. So we
thank you dani Oloski for joining us right here on
the Johnsontle Podcast, Presented by Citizens, the Official Bank of
the Giants. We'll have continuing coverage of the Giants OTAs
the off season program. We'll keep doing stuff on the
draft picks. All of that and most of those podcasts
will come to you from the Hackensack Marine Health Podcast Studio.
Keep getting better for Danielaskyam, John Schmolke, We'll see you
(36:31):
next time.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Everybody,
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